Franklin Graham - eight venues cancelled

[Nalaar]

https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2002/03/billy-graham-apologizes-for-anti-semitic-comments-in-1972-conversation-with-nixon.aspx">//https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2002/03/billy-graham-apologizes-for-anti-semitic-comments-in-1972-conversation-with-nixon.aspx

Well isn't it nice that it took him until his 80s, and after conversations had been made public, for him to apologise for his anti-semitism. Just a bit of a shame he didn't realise at the time that what he was saying was unacceptable, would you agree?

You know why I accentuated "Doctor", because he had honorary degrees in divinity. He knew the Bible back to front and knew theology inside out.

He was no slouch as you suggested with the "intellectual fraud" jibe, which is totally unfounded.

I see no contradiction in the statements that Graham was awarded an honorary, non-academic title, and that he was intellectually fraudulent, and lacking.

[Barry]

I am unsure why you chose to stress "Doctor" when his honorary degree was purely religious, and not academic.



As was noted earlier in the thread, Graham didn't care about the truth of his claims, only the reaction which is followers expressed to them, I regard this as intellectually fraudulent.



If you want me to go further I certain will, Doctor Billy Graham was also anti-Semitic, which leads me to conclude he was also intellectually lacking.

https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2002/03/billy-graham-apologizes-for-anti-semitic-comments-in-1972-conversation-with-nixon.aspx">//https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2002/03/billy-graham-apologizes-for-anti-semitic-comments-in-1972-conversation-with-nixon.aspx

You know why I accentuated "Doctor", because he had honorary degrees in divinity. He knew the Bible back to front and knew theology inside out.

He was no slouch as you suggested with the "intellectual fraud" jibe, which is totally unfounded.

[Nalaar]

So your earlier assertion that Doctor Billy Graham was an intellectual fraud is based on what?

I am unsure why you chose to stress "Doctor" when his honorary degree was purely religious, and not academic.



As was noted earlier in the thread, Graham didn't care about the truth of his claims, only the reaction which is followers expressed to them, I regard this as intellectually fraudulent.



If you want me to go further I certain will, Doctor Billy Graham was also anti-Semitic, which leads me to conclude he was also intellectually lacking.

[T00ts]

I have no doubt you are sincere in your belief and how it applies to your god and religion, for example the "strength of the Holy Spirit" However I know other people, with different gods and different religions, who have their sincere beliefs about how their deities have empowered them and others, you may scoff at them, or consider them misguided, they have much the same feeling towards you, and me.

Good grief! We are back to free will again! Misguided or not it is not my judgement. What anyone does or doesn't believe is entirely their personal choice. All I can do is make as many as possible aware of the Gospel and its truth and relevance to today. That is God's work and is what He asks us to do.

[Barry]

There are very few "truths" to be known, but I think they are knowable, none of them are religious.

So your earlier assertion that Doctor Billy Graham was an intellectual fraud is based on what?

[Nalaar]

This perhaps should go into the Religious section but like so many who scoff at the strength of the Holy Spirit, or alternatively Satan, really miss something that so many accept as a reality. Just because one person has not accepted the possibility enough to ask the very relevant question  of any power out there just in case it is possible, does not mean that it is anyone else's imagination. I personally vouch that the truth is a matter of a very simple request to be told and then the preparedness to listen.

I have no doubt you are sincere in your belief and how it applies to your god and religion, for example the "strength of the Holy Spirit" However I know other people, with different gods and different religions, who have their sincere beliefs about how their deities have empowered them and others, you may scoff at them, or consider them misguided, they have much the same feeling towards you, and me.

[Nalaar]

Possibly, from your earlier post, you imply that you know the truth. I try to rely on the Word of God for truth. You probably rely on something else.

There are very few "truths" to be known, but I think they are knowable, none of them are religious.

[T00ts]

Presumably in the same way preachers, priests, oracles, and shamans have "felt" the power of another through themselves throughout human history.

This perhaps should go into the Religious section but like so many who scoff at the strength of the Holy Spirit, or alternatively Satan, really miss something that so many accept as a reality. Just because one person has not accepted the possibility enough to ask the very relevant question  of any power out there just in case it is possible, does not mean that it is anyone else's imagination. I personally vouch that the truth is a matter of a very simple request to be told and then the preparedness to listen.

[Barry]

Presumably in the same way preachers, priests, oracles, and shamans have "felt" the power of another through themselves throughout human history.

Possibly, from your earlier post, you imply that you know the truth. I try to rely on the Word of God for truth. You probably rely on something else.

[Nalaar]

Now you have put it into context, I agree with Graham as there is power in the Word of God and he no doubt felt the power of the Holy Spirit when he was preaching that. He had no power of his own.

Presumably in the same way preachers, priests, oracles, and shamans have "felt" the power of another through themselves throughout human history.

[Barry]

Graham believed himself to be the one with the power, which is somewhat understandable given he is but a man and some of the reactions he was getting from his followers...



To quote the memoirs of Charles Templeton when in conversation with Graham (during which time Templeton was struggling with his faith because of questions about taking the book of Genesis etc as literal accounts of history) Graham replies to these doubts -

"I've discovered something in my ministry: when I take the Bible literally, when I proclaim it as God's Word, I have power. When I stand before the people and say, 'God says,' or 'The Bible says, 'the Holy Spirit uses me. There are results. People respond."



I find these sentiments deeply troubling, a results orientated character creation mindset, which he used to forge the character that we know as Billy Graham.

Now you have put it into context, I agree with Graham as there is power in the Word of God and he no doubt felt the power of the Holy Spirit when he was preaching that. He had no power of his own.

[Nalaar]

Did I misread that. Was the "he had power", Graham stating God had power, or that Graham had power. Not sure if the capital H had been missed off.

Graham believed himself to be the one with the power, which is somewhat understandable given he is but a man and some of the reactions he was getting from his followers...



To quote the memoirs of Charles Templeton when in conversation with Graham (during which time Templeton was struggling with his faith because of questions about taking the book of Genesis etc as literal accounts of history) Graham replies to these doubts -

"I've discovered something in my ministry: when I take the Bible literally, when I proclaim it as God's Word, I have power. When I stand before the people and say, 'God says,' or 'The Bible says, 'the Holy Spirit uses me. There are results. People respond."



I find these sentiments deeply troubling, a results orientated character creation mindset, which he used to forge the character that we know as Billy Graham.

[T00ts]

Did I misread that. Was the "he had power", Graham stating God had power, or that Graham had power. Not sure if the capital H had been missed off.

I read it that Graham had power. I have no doubt that he was a basically good man preaching the Gospel to the best of his ability and understanding but I have personal reservations about the way he went about it and just how close that was to the teachings of Paul in the New Testament when he described how preaching the Gospel for one's own aggrandisement wasn't what it was all about. I grew up aware of his crusades but I am not sure I ever saw a complete delivery. I can only imagine that his son is trying to emulate his success and again I would have reservations. We are warned constantly of the false prophets who will lead millions away from the real truth. We see it all around us.

Fortunately I believe we will all be given the chance to hear and understand the real truth at some point and then we will be free to make our decision if it's not already made. I should qualify that - only if we haven't already made a decision on earth - as I understand it.

[Barry]

Beware of false prophets.

Did I misread that. Was the "he had power", Graham stating God had power, or that Graham had power. Not sure if the capital H had been missed off.

[T00ts]

Fine, I have no problem with that at all.

Beware of false prophets.