Labour Infighting Thread #423,555

[srb7677]

I am not your Blairite friend and am not a defender of New Labour.

And I have neither the time nor the inclination to fritter away more than a few nanoseconds wasted on you.

Aye you are. You are my blairite friend on this forum.

When is welsh labour bringing in the left wing utopia and paradise for the poor and layabouts you constantly promise?

They have only been in power since 1999?

John of gwent tells me labour have wales in a right shite hole as ever , why am i not suprised?

If you think I am a Blairite after everything I have ever said, then you are an idiot.

But alas you are simply trying to be a provocative arse as usual.

[Thomas]

I am not your Blairite friend and am not a defender of New Labour.

And I have neither the time nor the inclination to fritter away more than a few nanoseconds wasted on you.

Aye you are. You are my blairite friend on this forum.

When is welsh labour bringing in the left wing utopia and paradise for the poor and layabouts you constantly promise?

They have only been in power since 1999?

John of gwent tells me labour have wales in a right shite hole as ever , why am i not suprised?

[srb7677]

More dishonest shit from you. I simply gave Starmer enough rope to hang himself with and have no "Blairite heroes".

Address the points my blairite friend and stop diverting.

Labour invented austerity and the bedroom tax.

I am not your Blairite friend and am not a defender of New Labour.

And I have neither the time nor the inclination to fritter away more than a few nanoseconds wasted on you.

[Thomas]

More dishonest shit from you. I simply gave Starmer enough rope to hang himself with and have no "Blairite heroes".

Address the points my blairite friend and stop diverting.

Labour invented austerity and the bedroom tax.

[Thomas]

The bedroom tax - never labelled as such at the time, at least not down here - might have been yet another egregious New Labour introduction for the private sector where smaller properties were available, but it was extended to social housing by the Tories and without regard for the availability of smaller housing. This is when the label "bedroom tax" took off.

The labels are irrelevant  , the policy is what matters , and the bedroom tax was invented by labour.

Read the feckin articles , brown and darling trialled it in 2009 on social housing tenants

Austerity was invented by the Labour Party

Remember the fuss about bedroom tax which is, in truth, an iniquitous way of saving money?

LABOUR introduced  it in 2007 for private sector tenants and trialled in 2009 for social housing tenants. The reason that the new Government could introduce it so quickly was because everything including the legislation was already in place.

https://richardkemp.wordpress.com/2019/12/01/austerity-was-invented-by-the-labour-party/

The coalition in 2010 cut a billion LESS than labour under brown and darling intended to had they been re elected .

You would have been standing there cheering them on while bleating hypocritically about "the poor."

[srb7677]

I already reject Starmer. The jury is no longer out.

Why because a few anonymous posters on this forum had to drag you kicking and screaming to see what he really is?

You are full of shite .

I have been reading for months now of the internal battle and hatred within labour between differing factions ,while you were on this forum trying and failing to straddle the fence in defence of your beloved labour party and your blairite heroes.

The jury is no longer out on starmer , as it has never sat in the first place as everycant and their mother except nice but dim steve in plymouths momentum club knew starmer was an out and out blairite while steve sat on the grass picking daises dreaming about a new labour government.

More dishonest shit from you. I simply gave Starmer enough rope to hang himself with and have no "Blairite heroes".

[Thomas]

I already reject Starmer. The jury is no longer out.

Why because a few anonymous posters on this forum had to drag you kicking and screaming to see what he really is?

You are full of shite .

I have been reading for months now of the internal battle and hatred within labour between differing factions ,while you were on this forum trying and failing to straddle the fence in defence of your beloved labour party and your blairite heroes.

The jury is no longer out on starmer , as it has never sat in the first place as everycant and their mother except nice but dim steve in plymouths momentum club knew starmer was an out and out blairite while steve sat on the grass picking daises dreaming about a new labour government.

[Thomas]

We will not get viable new parties under FPTP

liar.

Are you hinting that the english people are incapable of doing what we did in scotland and smashing fptp with a new party?

You know this is crap ,as ukip/brexit party ate right into your vote in 2015. Had you and the tories carried on refusing to acknowledge englands right to have a referendum on leaving the eu , they would have smashed you and taken power eventually.

Dont be so dismissive of your own people ,i think you are in for a big shock one day.

We had labour going from the party of scotland to fourth place over 6 years because of how bad and duplicitous they were. The english people similarly wont carry on putting up with your bullshit and fantasy airy fairy promises.

[Thomas]

Talking to comrades is generally far more fruitful.

There you go again , rather than address the points in the post i have made to you , you lie , rant , insult , divert and retreat into momentum idiom about how talking is more "fruitfull" standing in a darkened room shouting at your fellow brothers and sisters in your hard left jerk circle.

Heres a bit more of an education on how your labour party under brown devised and developed the bedroom tax........

This is a reference to the introduction of Local Housing Allowance in 2008 under Gordon Brown was in effect a Bedroom Tax for private tenants. As noted in the Wikipedia entry for LHA (our emphasis):

    "The amount of LHA awarded depends on:

        the number of bedrooms deemed to be required by the claimant, and

        where they live (which determines the market level of rents within this area)"

The double standard of Labour protesting about the Tories doing to social-housing tenants what Labour had already done to private tenants is obvious. But much more crucial is the way it demonstrates that Labour have surrendered, and continue to surrender, the ideological ground to the Tories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Housing_Allowance


So to summarise the bedroom tax , labour bring it in in 2007/08 for private tenants , trial it in 2009 for social tenants , get kicked out of government in 2010 , the coalition carry on labours policy.

The laughable thing was the last time one of your blairite friends were in charge of your beloved party was 2015 with milliband , Labour merely wanted to copy what the coalition had been doing and what labour originally did , but the laughable alternative they offered voters was to merely water this hated policy down around the edges.

....and you wonder why people are sick to death with you and your duplicitous party?

[Borg Refinery]

I do not reject Labour because it is the vehicle the left needs to regain, the battleground where the fight must take place.

When will you regain power? 2050? Will it be another 30 or 40 years as between Corbyn and Michael Foot?

The left is still strong in the party. And contrary to bullshit imaginings, we are not extremists.

No, some are extremists like in all parties, so that's not really true. However, they are not ALL extremists.

I like Corbyn supporters but not hhe man himself, I hope they will leave Lab and start a new party.

You agreed we needed new parties and are now immediately backtracking.

You're also saying I'm bullying you elsewhere when I have done no such thing, it's a f**king heinous lie and I thought better of you.

We will not get viable new parties under FPTP. Which is why we on the left must stay and fight it out in Labour. At least until or unless we get electoral reform.

Delusional and highly unprincipled.

And you'll get little respect from me if you lack the courtesy to address me by my correct username.

🙄..

srv is an insult? Since when? I called you after a guitarist because you say things like 'dude' a fair bit and you like pink floyd, how is that an 'insult'. Your skin must be paper thin if you're offended by a slight joke with no mean intent fer goodness sakes.

...And you wonder why people respond to you as they do on here?

Where have I (other than today) ever insulted you even once?

As far as accusations of you bullying me are concerned, address them in the actual thread you accuse me of doing it in with quotes and I may address you. Otherwise it might just me another misrepresentation for all I know. Though in your case it would at least be an honest one. You are not Thomas.

Wow are you so dishonest you can't even own up to what you said to me in a seperate thread?

Fine, have it your way then. I was wrong, you aren't in denial, you are just fond of lying to people's fecking faces.

And you're actually defending right-wing Toryism on the other thread, like a typical faceless neoliberal Starmerite sticking up for the Westminster party.

Thomas has you completely pegged.

[srb7677]

The bedroom tax came into effect on April 1st 2013, introduced by the Welfare Reform Act of 2012. Labour were not in power then. ...

So my blairite friend .Not content with using weasal words to defend starmer the blairite , you are now trying to re write history to defend gordon brown


The idea of the bedroom tax goes back to 1998 according to alistair darling , and was introduced for private sector tenants in 2007/08 , then trialled for social tenants in 2009.  All under a labour government.

The Labour Party either have a very bad or very selective memory when it comes to remembering the situation that the country was in after the last Labour Government. They choose to portray the cuts that were made and other things such as the 'bedroom tax' and Universal Credit as inventions of the Coalition Government. None of these are true.

Remember the fuss about bedroom tax which is, in truth, an iniquitous way of saving money? It was introduced in 2007 for private sector tenants and trialled in 2009 for social housing tenants. The reason that the new Government could introduce it so quickly was because everything including the legislation was already in place.

https://richardkemp.wordpress.com/2019/12/01/austerity-was-invented-by-the-labour-party/

Bedroom tax 'inspired by last Labour government'

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/85322/bedroom-tax-inspired-by-last-labour-government/

The truth is that Labour's heart was never really in this vote. You see, it's a little known fact that the Bedroom Tax, or "spare room subsidy" was actually piloted by the Labour Party all the way back in 2001. Malcolm Wicks (former Parliamentary undersecretary of state in the Department of Work & Pensions) is quoted in Hansard, saying:

    "The under-occupation pilot encourages housing benefit recipients living in under-occupied social housing to move to smaller and cheaper accommodation in order to make more efficient use of housing stock."

Say what you will about the Tories, but they are what they are – and for whatever reason, they're proud of it. They have never (convincingly anyway) tried to pretend that they are compassionate, progressive or even remotely left wing. David Cameron's party is the party of the rich, the powerful, the social elite – but we know that, and we've always known that.

The Labour Party on the other hand is far less easy to place. We know they want our votes, and we know that they're not Tories. Beyond that though, it's extremely difficult to name something concrete that Labour fundamentally disagree with the Tories on – especially given that they don't think the Bedroom Tax is "politically important".

https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/11/14/bedroom-tax-hypocrisy/

A variety of newspapers and blogs  , including the left wing bella caledonia calling you out steve as a liar .

Is there no depth you will stoop to defend blairites?

The bedroom tax - never labelled as such at the time, at least not down here - might have been yet another egregious New Labour introduction for the private sector where smaller properties were available, but it was extended to social housing by the Tories and without regard for the availability of smaller housing. This is when the label "bedroom tax" took off.

[srb7677]

I do not reject Labour because it is the vehicle the left needs to regain, the battleground where the fight must take place.

When will you regain power? 2050? Will it be another 30 or 40 years as between Corbyn and Michael Foot?

The left is still strong in the party. And contrary to bullshit imaginings, we are not extremists.

No, some are extremists like in all parties, so that's not really true. However, they are not ALL extremists.

I like Corbyn supporters but not hhe man himself, I hope they will leave Lab and start a new party.

You agreed we needed new parties and are now immediately backtracking.

You're also saying I'm bullying you elsewhere when I have done no such thing, it's a f**king heinous lie and I thought better of you.

We will not get viable new parties under FPTP. Which is why we on the left must stay and fight it out in Labour. At least until or unless we get electoral reform.

And you'll get little respect from me if you lack the courtesy to address me by my correct username. As far as accusations of you bullying me are concerned, address them in the actual thread you accuse me of doing it in with quotes and I may address you. Otherwise it might just me another misrepresentation for all I know. Though in your case it would at least be an honest one. You are not Thomas.

[Borg Refinery]

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6khf9k?start=2262

[Borg Refinery]

I do not reject Labour because it is the vehicle the left needs to regain, the battleground where the fight must take place.

When will you regain power? 2050? Will it be another 30 or 40 years as between Corbyn and Michael Foot?

The left is still strong in the party. And contrary to bullshit imaginings, we are not extremists.

No, some are extremists like in all parties, so that's not really true. However, they are not ALL extremists.

I like Corbyn supporters but not hhe man himself, I hope they will leave Lab and start a new party.

You agreed we needed new parties and are now immediately backtracking.

You're also saying I'm bullying you elsewhere when I have done no such thing, it's a fucking heinous lie and I thought better of you.

[srb7677]

To illustrate my point;

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/keir-starmers-leadership-isnt-new-at-all/

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18463860.keir-starmers-dithering-big-issues-stark-contrast-fms-leadership/

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/keir-starmer-labour-leadership-cps-ian-tomlinson-john-worboys-a9276321.html

I mean the Jimmy Saville furore and the Rotherham f**k up alone should stoke srv (I'm calling him srv now, short for stevie ray vaughan) to reject Starmer and maybe Labour.

..but he won't, sadly

I already reject Starmer. The jury is no longer out. Inside Labour is where the battle against him will ultimately be fought when the time is right. I do not reject Labour because it is the vehicle the left needs to regain, the battleground where the fight must take place. The left is still strong in the party. And contrary to bullshit imaginings, we are not extremists.