Free Will

[T00ts]

There you go see, using religion as a way to suppress free will (!!!)

 ::  ::

[johnofgwent]

Sorry - Thou shalt not kill!

There you go see, using religion as a way to suppress free will (!!!)

[T00ts]

Well, there is an interesting point being made about responsibility for ones condition on the bbc website right now.



In regard to a farmer whose family home is now at the bottom of a cliff.



I can hear now the torrent of cries of stupid sod for building where he did.



Those who read the whole story and do some research will know that the man who put his life savings into the place did so in the late 1920s



In 1998 his descendant at an adjacent property erected sea defences to prevent the cliff from eroding and the council used powers handed to it in 1930 to force their removal, citing a wish to see the cliff fallnintonthexsea naturally.



If you wish me to take responsibility for my actions, you must allow me to behead council arse holes ...

Sorry - Thou shalt not kill!

[papasmurf]

If you wish me to take responsibility for my actions, you must allow me to behead council arse holes ...

A lot of people would like to do just that.

[johnofgwent]

Well, there is an interesting point being made about responsibility for ones condition on the bbc website right now.



In regard to a farmer whose family home is now at the bottom of a cliff.



I can hear now the torrent of cries of stupid sod for building where he did.



Those who read the whole story and do some research will know that the man who put his life savings into the place did so in the late 1920s



In 1998 his descendant at an adjacent property erected sea defences to prevent the cliff from eroding and the council used powers handed to it in 1930 to force their removal, citing a wish to see the cliff fallnintonthexsea naturally.



If you wish me to take responsibility for my actions, you must allow me to behead council arse holes ...

[T00ts]

Free will is based on our choices but also is largely limited by the socium. You can make your little choices on everyday basis such as - to buy this or that, or whether to give money to that poor man who you've met in the morning or to pass by him. However your "big", life-determining choices are dictated by the socium most of the time. As part of that socium you can't decide what is good and evil because there are laws to decide that and people which by election you've put above yourself to determine that matter. Sometimes the laws and rules in the socium may distinguish from what is good and evil in Bible context and your choices will probably continue to depend mostly on the rules in the socium as long as you are part of it, because those rules dictate everything around you.



In my experience people make complete different choices when it is about the little, everyday decisions. But when it is about life-shaping models - such as job, family, education, moral - most of them just follow the social-shaped steps. There is nothing wrong with that because if everyone start living by their own rules there won't be harmony in the society. I mean that a big part of our consciousness - national consciousness, traditions, religion, education is social-shaped and many of our choices are dictated by the society so the free will is more or less restricted by those role-models.



Another thing i want to mention. From your point of view you said that you understand free will as our choices between good and evil or God and Satan. But this is your point of view as a religious person who struggle to develop yourself and your inner world. But most of the people, and especially the people who don't believe base their choices principally on interest. It is complete different manner of thinking. Big part of them don't weigh their choices on the scales of justice, but rather rethink whether the decision will gain them more benefits.



For example - the typical mercenary would be motivated by the payment for his choice to kill. Оnly after that he can find and excuse for his conscience - it can be national pride, protection of the homeland or whatever excuse he can find. But it only comes as secondary after the interest. So it is important to know that not all people are like the believers, because they interest-motivate their choices and not moral-motivate.

I think you might be missing the point. Of course most people are led by the social mores of the day I fully understand that but if one is to truly follow Christ, although we recognise that we live in this world we choose not to live of it. The secular framework is not the one I choose to follow I choose to follow the dictates of Christ, which I admit I am never totally successful at but I keep trying. Just to make it clear I am not referring to Abraham's laws or Moses' laws, both of which were fulfilled by Jesus. I refer to Jesus' laws.

[aboutt]

Free will is based on our choices but also is largely limited by the socium. You can make your little choices on everyday basis such as - to buy this or that, or whether to give money to that poor man who you've met in the morning or to pass by him. However your "big", life-determining choices are dictated by the socium most of the time. As part of that socium you can't decide what is good and evil because there are laws to decide that and people which by election you've put above yourself to determine that matter. Sometimes the laws and rules in the socium may distinguish from what is good and evil in Bible context and your choices will probably continue to depend mostly on the rules in the socium as long as you are part of it, because those rules dictate everything around you.



In my experience people make complete different choices when it is about the little, everyday decisions. But when it is about life-shaping models - such as job, family, education, moral - most of them just follow the social-shaped steps. There is nothing wrong with that because if everyone start living by their own rules there won't be harmony in the society. I mean that a big part of our consciousness - national consciousness, traditions, religion, education is social-shaped and many of our choices are dictated by the society so the free will is more or less restricted by those role-models.



Another thing i want to mention. From your point of view you said that you understand free will as our choices between good and evil or God and Satan. But this is your point of view as a religious person who struggle to develop yourself and your inner world. But most of the people, and especially the people who don't believe base their choices principally on interest. It is complete different manner of thinking. Big part of them don't weigh their choices on the scales of justice, but rather rethink whether the decision will gain them more benefits.



For example - the typical mercenary would be motivated by the payment for his choice to kill. Оnly after that he can find and excuse for his conscience - it can be national pride, protection of the homeland or whatever excuse he can find. But it only comes as secondary after the interest. So it is important to know that not all people are like the believers, because they interest-motivate their choices and not moral-motivate.

[Baron von Lotsov]

From the psychological perspective we are talking about two kinds of mental process. The primitive one is stuff like eating because you are hungry, or running away from something that scares you. You brain instantly decides on what to do. The other way of thinking is via reasoning, and this is dealt with by the cerebral cortex. That's the wrinkly surface to it. Another factor to do with brains is that if you do not use a certain part of the brain you lose it. For example if you became blind the part of the brain once used for optical recognition is handed over to other functions, and if you say rely more on hearing if you become blind then that part will get more use and will expand.



So in knowing the above, what is going on in our society is that the reasoning part is under-used and the primitive part of it is used more. You can see this in advertising and newspapers. Most stories relate to a primitive reaction, which is often fear, but can be one of the others. Reason is typically a sequence of deductive steps. Think how much and how complex any reasoning is in the Sun or Mirror and I think you have an explanation as to what is going on. Look at the way things are explained on the BBC and in schools and you'll see a shift towards the primitive thinking. There's no free will in it. If you scare someone enough you can totally control them and control is the name of the game in today's crooked world. You buy shampoo to give you sex appeal, not clean your hair eh?

[T00ts]

I wonder how anyone might feel about a comment I heard the other day. We have discussed Free Will here before and my understanding that it relates to our choices between good and evil or God and Satan, however you will think of it. We presumably base our choices on the likely consequences of any actions we take and the comment that hit me was - in modern times Free Will has become such that consequences are generally not accepted nor even recognised.

Is the upsurge in unhappiness, depression and ailing mind health to do with the lack of direction and the belief that nothing is wrong, anything goes and no-one is to blame or answerable for their own behaviour?