Question for Scottish Nationalists

[Jaydee]

To be honest I am more worried about the Scottish Conservatives. Possibly I malign them but they always seem to model themselves on Ruth Davidson, self confident Tory Remainers who have no idea that there is a world south of the border.

I hope they don't have plans to move to England after Scottish independence.

May I suggest you start worrying about English Conservatives.  From the top down.

[Borchester]

To be honest I am more worried about the Scottish Conservatives. Possibly I malign them but they always seem to model themselves on Ruth Davidson, self confident Tory Remainers who have no idea that there is a world south of the border.

I hope they don't have plans to move to England after Scottish independence.

[Jaydee]

Ooooh it's very tempting to try and conjure up what names those new parties would have. I can imagine Clans returning together with kilts and all. The mind goes into overdrive! I wonder if Brown would offer himself or emigrate?

Tell me something.  When Scotland does go its merry way.  How are you going to deal with a immediate PSBR of over £100 billion.  On top of what is already there. A debt of £2.4 trillion. And rising at over £5,000 per second.  A QE problem of over £450 billion.  A English local authority debt of over £300 billion.  A English up and coming energy problem that is going to cost in excess of £450.  Not even added the cost of decommissioning The second largest external debt of some £9 trillion.  Surpassed only by the Americans.  And the cost of Brexit in the future, which has now cost more than the UK has put in over the last 40 odd years or  the Corona Virus has not even been included. 

The mind goes into overdrive as I see Sanak wearing  bells around his knees, as he converts to a Morris dancer,  screaming the economy is sound and Big Kranky Bojo shouting what's going on.  Do you know that the UK is between the 28th and 32nd richest country in the world.  That is third world status.  And England on its own would be in the same play park.  Scotland would be between the 8th and 12th  richest.  Would you care to correct  anything I have just said.  Or are you going to immigrate. And by the way.  The Bank of England which is a misnomer.  Does not even hold enough gold reserve, to cover the English  local authority debt.  Not to mention if Scotland had been on its own in 1976.  England would still be a third world economic basket case in the hands of the IMF. And oh.  You can keep Brown. 

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cabinetpapers/themes/sterling-devalued-imf-loan.htm

[morayloon]

But what about the day when you have independence already? Imagine that you then have a separate Scottish Labour Party, a separate Scottish Conservative Party, and a separate Scottish Lib Dem Party - all of them reconciled to Scottish independence and entirely independent of London - as well as the SNP

I  think it would take time for the Unionists to shake off their Unionist values: London rule is best. Labour & the LDs would lose votes as their supporters veered towards either the SNP or the Tories as they see their own Party becoming more and more irrelevant in Scotland. The Tories, as the natural home of Unionists, would gain from disaffected Unionist voters. I think there will always be a section of society hankering for the return of foreign rule.
If the above comes to pass, the SNP is well placed to survive and, taking a Left of Centre stance, thrive.

Who would you vote for then? Still the SNP? And if so on what policy basis? Or - with independence achieved - would you vote for the Scottish Tories or anyone else?

There would have to be a sea change in views on the constitution from the LDs and Labour - and that includes changes at the top to get rid of the Unionist dead wood - if iI were even to think about not voting SNP!
I have always voted SNP and it would take a lot for me to contemplate voting any other way.
Independence is the main policy but the party has a raft of others. The SNP would not have been successful had it not had these popular ideas. Free prescriptions, no tuition fees, care for the elderly etc.

[Jaydee]

I am thinking particularly of Thomas as I pose this question.

Most Scottish nationalists back the SNP with the overriding aim of gaining independence.

But what about the day when you have independence already? Imagine that you then have a separate Scottish Labour Party, a separate Scottish Conservative Party, and a separate Scottish Lib Dem Party - all of them reconciled to Scottish independence and entirely independent of London - as well as the SNP.

Who would you vote for then? Still the SNP? And if so on what policy basis? Or - with independence achieved - would you vote for the Scottish Tories or anyone else?

I am or was a Scottish Conservative.  That started to drain when Theresa May was appointed and went by the wayside when Big Kranky Bojo was elected.  And the final straw with Jackson Carlaw. At one point in time in Scotland the Tory vote was simply a wasted vote. There is no way could I vote for Labour of Libs.  That left the SNP.  Which was not a problem.  As I like many Conservative understand the Union is finished.  And the SNP  handling of the Scottish economy beats Westminster hands down. The Union has nothing to offer Scotland.  To be fair.  The Conservatives made a come back in the past few years.  Those who vote had no idea who Thatcher was.  Labour was decimated by Johann Lamont and her Branch Office quip.  That Tory come back, was at the hands of Ruth Davidson.  Think what you like of her.  But she resigned because she cannot stand Big Kranky Bojo.  And could not work with him.  And knows full well  the Union is on the way out.  She is now history.   But why did you ask.  Scottish Labour, Conservatives, Libs etc are separate parties from their English counter part.  How they meet up in Westminster is a separate issue.  How the act on Scotland goes its merry way.  Will be entirely different.

More to the point, if you have a vote in England and  when England goes its merry way.  Would  you vote English Conservative, Labour and Libs, when the Scottish Branch office goes.  And what that is going to throw up south of the border.   It happened with the choice of Johnston and Corbyn. And you are missing several points.  The main one being.  The SNP are in power because they bat for Scotland, first last and in between.  And their support is from all colours.  At one political level or another.  Be it, Local,  Regional or national GE.  Around 100% of Scottish voters, not all clearly.  At one point in time, at one level or another, voted for the SNP.  That alas is not the problem in England.  The positions are polarised.  I say that to the exclusion of the last GE.  When the choice in England was between Corbyn and big Kranky Bojo.  Neither fit to hold any office.  far less high office. It was not a case who England wanted. Shall we say.  A material change in English circumstances.  It was a case who they did not want.  And Scotland, who voted for neither. Was lumbered by that result.  And therein lay the problem.  And a rise in days from 30% or so to 56% and rising. 

[Borg Refinery]

You missed out the option of "Scottish Trotskyite Falangist Monster Raving Loony Party"

You can be their head.

[Thomas]

You've said your vote is up for grabs. Need I say more?

wass tha matta quackers? Sat evening , bored and brexit worries getting to you?

As long as we keep wacky anti democratic woke liberals like you away from the levers of power in an indy scotland  then i will be happy.

[HDQQ]

and this is supposed be your contribution to debate?

You've said your vote is up for grabs. Need I say more?

[T00ts]

So it's emigration then. I wonder where to!  Poor chap.

You wont be saying that if he ends up down your neck of the woods 

 

[Thomas]

So it's emigration then. I wonder where to!  Poor chap.

You wont be saying that if he ends up down your neck of the woods 

[T00ts]

I wonder if Brown would offer himself or emigrate?

Toots , brown is utterly despised in scotland . My cousin used to live in his old constituency , and she said he was lucky he walked before he was severely pushed by the local electorate who came to hate the man.

Brown wil be crying into his porridge forever more the day scotland gains it independence.

I would love to rub a saltire right in the guys face , the dirty brit nat that he is.

So it's emigration then. I wonder where to!  Poor chap.

[Thomas]

I wonder if Brown would offer himself or emigrate?

Toots , brown is utterly despised in scotland . My cousin used to live in his old constituency , and she said he was lucky he walked before he was severely pushed by the local electorate who came to hate the man.

Brown wil be crying into his porridge forever more the day scotland gains it independence.

I would love to rub a saltire right in the guys face , the dirty brit nat that he is.

[T00ts]

Ooooh it's very tempting to try and conjure up what names those new parties would have. I can imagine Clans returning together with kilts and all. The mind goes into overdrive! I wonder if Brown would offer himself or emigrate?

[Thomas]

You missed out the option of "Scottish Trotskyite Falangist Monster Raving Loony Party"

and this is supposed be your contribution to debate?

As i said , you and smurf two peas in a pod.

You must be shattered about brexit quackers. .....but then most of the anti democrats around the yookay are.

[Thomas]

It is an reasonable question .

Not really streetwalker , as its one i have answered to steve many a time , so cant see the point in doing so again.

As you say though , i cant see any of the parties staying the same , and i would imagine new scottish parties will emerge from the ashes of the old british ones.

Certainly as i have said many a time ,the snp will split . We are a broad church under the independence banner. United in one goal only ...independence.

We want good strong and very decent parties left right and centre emerging from the ashes , and my vote is up for sale to the highest bidder.