Incompetent or just unlucky?

[Thomas]

Nope, he's saying if you want them removed from govt as many suggest, then you shouldn'ta voted them in.

If the LD's got in, they would have had jav hoping they got voted out too.

And I guess I failed in my duty to research Corbyn when I voted for him, as he's clearly a pedo enabling cess who needs to be sent off to Syria.. so the criticism applies to us all, except I was just ignorant; they were wilfully ignorant liars.

The only solution is probably the Guy Fawkes solution as JoG often suggests. And as many have pointedvto on here, only extreme protesting and violence seems to get anything done, going back to the Sufragettes..

Well i have just skimmed the thread , and its early in the morning , but perhaps you or javert can quote exactly who has said they want the current government removed from power?

If the LD's got in, they would have had jav hoping they got voted out too.

You are now speaking for javert too?

Somehow i highly doubt that  , javert would have revelled in the lib dems taking power at westminster.....primarily because they would have stopped brexit and thwarted democracy last december.

And I guess I failed in my duty to research Corbyn when I voted for him, as he's clearly a pedo enabling cess who needs to be sent off to Syria.. so the criticism applies to us all, except I was just ignorant; they were wilfully ignorant liars.

The only solution is probably the Guy Fawkes solution as JoG often suggests. And as many have pointedvto on here, only extreme protesting and violence seems to get anything done, going back to the Sufragettes..

Eh?

I think your problem dyno is you want perfection from politicians and political parties......and you will have a never ending wait for that perfection to happen.

I suspect if all of us knew last decemebr what we know now , we would have voted exactly the same way as we did.

I have no regrets how i voted , and i will do so again and again.

[Borg Refinery]

I dont think its a good point. I criticise the snp government who i voted for many a time on issues i dont like or disgree with...is javert saying if you vote a party into government they are beyond criticism?

Nope, he's saying if you want them removed from govt as many suggest, then you shouldn'ta voted them in.

If the LD's got in, they would have had jav hoping they got voted out too.

And I guess I failed in my duty to research Corbyn when I voted for him, as he's clearly a pedo enabling cess who needs to be sent off to Syria.. so the criticism applies to us all, except I was just ignorant; they were wilfully ignorant liars.

The only solution is probably the Guy Fawkes solution as JoG often suggests. And as many have pointedvto on here, only extreme protesting and violence seems to get anything done, going back to the Sufragettes..

[Thomas]

That's a good point, they did vote the incompetent twots into power that they're bleating about, then again you wanted the LD's in power which would've been, um, interesting.

I dont think its a good point. I criticise the snp government who i voted for many a time on issues i dont like or disgree with...is javert saying if you vote a party into government they are beyond criticism?

Secondly javert isnt some innocent bystander ...remind me why ( at uk level) are we at this point politically speaking?

Had clowns like javert accepted democracy four years ago , we wouldnt have seen the voting public primarily in england get more and more angry at the likes of javert and politicians of his like mind who could not accept democracy. Hence the public got more and more extreme over brexit , till the point they would have voted in anyone who promised not to disrespect their votes and implement democracy that they voted for in 2016.

So javert is as much an enabler of boris johnson as borkie or any other tory voter.

Secondly what was the alternative in England?

At uk level as we both know , if someone held a gun to my head and said pick between johnson and corbyn( or starmer) i would in all honesty vote johnson. Luckily i had another choice , most didnt.

So no point moaning about a system that gives a choice between dumb and dumber , then moaning when dumb doesnt perform.

[Borg Refinery]

Maybe I'm wrong but aren't all you lot on here discussing this the same people that voted the current crowd in?

Also - I guess the question is what would you do if you were in charge?  It's easy to say that everybody is rubbish and they are all terrible - do you have any specific policies that you would do?

That's a good point, they did vote the incompetent twots into power that they're bleating about, then again you wanted the LD's in power which would've been, um, interesting.

[T00ts]

Maybe I'm wrong but aren't all you lot on here discussing this the same people that voted the current crowd in?

Also - I guess the question is what would you do if you were in charge?  It's easy to say that everybody is rubbish and they are all terrible - do you have any specific policies that you would do?

...and the alternative choice was? Not that it made any difference for me. I was never a BJ fan but am democratic enough to go along with the majority. More than that, he deserves time to make his mark particularly in this situation.

What would I do? No-one would listen to me and I would struggle to be rude to even arrogant incompetent grey suits. I do think that we are suffering from an all boys together club that probably needs a reality check which is sometimes where women excel. There do seem to be a lot of rampant egos in play.

[Javert]

Maybe I'm wrong but aren't all you lot on here discussing this the same people that voted the current crowd in?

Also - I guess the question is what would you do if you were in charge?  It's easy to say that everybody is rubbish and they are all terrible - do you have any specific policies that you would do?

[T00ts]

Interesting observation that got me looking at the record since WWII — to me "Statesman" means a leader who is respected at home and also has enough gravitas to be listened to by world leaders and have their views seriously considered.

Churchill had been, but he wasn't at his best in peacetime; Macmillan certainly, and Heath is knocking on the door; Thatcher most certainly, and Blair too.

And I'd also suggest Gordon Brown as the catalyst for prompting a frightened world to act and to prevent a systemic collapse of the banking system.

Incidentally, Lloyd George was PM when the Spanish Flu was ravaging Europe. An interesting individual, a jobbing home politician, a celebrity maybe, but hardly a statesman...

On second thoughts I doubt that we can refer backwards since even those considered classic strong effective PMs because their times were so different in terms of access to information. By the way I would drop Blair like a hot potato if looking for good PMs. He went into No 10 called Bambi and he spent his 3 terms skidding around play acting every role available to save his own skin, and still does.

Now we are at their throats even when they are still thinking what to do. I guess they are bullied into decisions before they are ready. They are coerced into statements pretty much daily. They are judged on achievements almost hourly. Most of it unfair and ill judged.  Having given them that,  incompetence seems rife almost everywhere, so I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

[patman post]

We have had a succession of fairly pathetic PMs on both sides of the colour chart and not one real statesman.

Interesting observation that got me looking at the record since WWII — to me "Statesman" means a leader who is respected at home and also has enough gravitas to be listened to by world leaders and have their views seriously considered.

Churchill had been, but he wasn't at his best in peacetime; Macmillan certainly, and Heath is knocking on the door; Thatcher most certainly, and Blair too.

And I'd also suggest Gordon Brown as the catalyst for prompting a frightened world to act and to prevent a systemic collapse of the banking system.

Incidentally, Lloyd George was PM when the Spanish Flu was ravaging Europe. An interesting individual, a jobbing home politician, a celebrity maybe, but hardly a statesman...

[Borg Refinery]

So are the wrong people in politics? Is the route into office wrong? Are the SPADs too young, too unworldly and focussed on their pet ideals? Unless we see the problems evolving with current thinking we will not change things and I am beginning to think that change is needed.

We have had a succession of fairly pathetic PMs on both sides of the colour chart and not one real statesman.

Agreed on mostly everything all you guys are writing on the thread so far.

The problem with putting forward solutions is that no one will ever take them as these politicians WANT the status quo to remain forever and ever.

Look at how well the worthless trainwreck in the Senedd does as JoG points out. It is sick, it is criminal. It is wrong. Yet they remain and no reform is even likely in the near future.

The wrong people hold power, maybe what we need is good old fashioned mass protests to shake things up...

[Barry]

Referring to the OP, I generally agree, but I always look at politicians and the like and remember they are just people. Fallible people who have their own agendas, which could be personal gain, political excellence, or even the best outcome for the country.
I just wonder how we would manage if something serious happened, like a proper war. We'd be well and truly stuffed.

Although there is an 80 seat majority, it wouldn't hurt to have a consensual approach to solving problems towards the overall good of the country.
However, we saw that tried at the end of the last Parliament, and it ended in disaster.

[johnofgwent]

So are the wrong people in politics? Is the route into office wrong? Are the SPADs too young, too unworldly and focussed on their pet ideals? Unless we see the problems evolving with current thinking we will not change things and I am beginning to think that change is needed.

We have had a succession of fairly pathetic PMs on both sides of the colour chart and not one real statesman.

all of the above toots
how many in the house have held down a job of any kind other than one obtained through political patronage.
at least john two jags prescott once trod the deck aboard ship

william hague and mhairi black are probably two obvious never done anything before politics characters, although at least black was put up as the 10,000 to 1 candidate and it was only hatred of ed balls that got her elected. where are the scientists, where are the engineers ? I suppose apart from the army - which at least teaches you leadership, whether giving it or following it, the only other occupation seems to be lawyer. 

[Borchester]

I understand that everyone in Whitehall is exhausted with their effort, but is it possible that they are becoming punch drunk and simply don't know which way to turn, or are they simply unlucky?

Probably a bit of both Toots.

Most political problems are pretty simple. You either bomb Brussels, kiss Barnier's bum or leave matters to sort themselves out. But this flu is a real bugger. There is nothing that can be done and no way that the government can not do something. So all poor old Boris can do is watch while the SPADS scratch each each others eyes out.

[T00ts]

The bottom line here is none of the shower on either side of the commons, or for that matter in any other tier of government, have ever had a proper testing. Boris's buffoonery is an act, but he has no great vision, no plan, no ingenuity ... But neither has the other side ...
They rely on SPAD's who let us not mess about would never get to elected office on their own merit would they ?

So are the wrong people in politics? Is the route into office wrong? Are the SPADs too young, too unworldly and focussed on their pet ideals? Unless we see the problems evolving with current thinking we will not change things and I am beginning to think that change is needed.

We have had a succession of fairly pathetic PMs on both sides of the colour chart and not one real statesman.

[johnofgwent]

The bottom line here is none of the shower on either side of the commons, or for that matter in any other tier of government, have ever had a proper testing. Boris's buffoonery is an act, but he has no great vision, no plan, no ingenuity ... But neither has the other side ...
They rely on SPAD's who let us not mess about would never get to elected office on their own merit would they ?

[Sheepy]

All around us we are led to believe that there is chaos. Downing Street in the midst of civil war, more Covid deaths than anywhere else, rebellion in the Conservatives, dithering on the EU trade talks, NHS in disarray, and no end of others while all the while we wander aimlessly towards Jan 1st and EU freedom.

I can't help feeling that hard as they try in Westminster they simply don't have the competence required. It's almost as if each department is somehow lacking. Or is it? Is it simply that no-one has dealt with real calamity before? Is it that they simply don't comprehend how the country is responding to their government? Is it that they have simply drawn the short straw of incidents at a really difficult time even before Covid raised it's ugly head?

I understand that everyone in Whitehall is exhausted with their effort, but is it possible that they are becoming punch drunk and simply don't know which way to turn, or are they simply unlucky?

Dunno Toots, who sold the details of people who tested positive for Covid to companies to bombard them after the fear had set in?