Keir starmer has broken labour in under a year

[patman post]

An oversimplification perhaps but Starmer seems more focussed upon attacking the left of his own party than in opposing the Tories, giving us in many ways the worst of both worlds - a hopelessly divided and warring party in turmoil and discord offering a very weak opposition to the Tories. Something has to change because none of this is going to deliver a Labour government. The left need to be worked with, not attacked so that he and others do not keep generating party ill will internally and we can all move forward together, and the opposition to the Tories needs to be much more robust. The fact that Starmer comes across as personally boring doesn't help Labour's cause either.

But the local elections are almost upon us. Let's see how well or badly Labour does in those and if necessary act accordingly.

The Labour Party has spent most of the time since WWII divided and attacking itself and, as a result, out of power. The electorate don't like parties that are split, and the seemingly perverse activist Labour membership don't like (and incessantly attack) leaders that appeal to the moderate core of the British electorate. 

Labour has had 12 leaders since 1945 and five fairly middle-of-the-road prime ministers. The Conservatives have had 13 leaders out of which there have been 10 mid to Right of centre prime ministers. 

The drubbing given to Labour in the last election illustrates the point that electorate likes optimism and hope and doesn't like in-fighting or extremes. Starmer appears to be addressing that in a surgical manner, since appeasement of the extremists has always been short lived...

[grumzed]

I don't think Starmer has broken the Labour Party at all. Normal politics is currently in suspension because of Covid so we will have to wait to see what happens later. Starmer's Labour is a lot more electable than Corbyn's ever was. Corbyn sidelined anyone who did not agree with his radical views (like Tom Watson for example). Starmer is much more inclusive except to groups like Momentum who were largely responsible for the changes to Labour by their obvious and well known tactics of taking over public meetings en bloc and intimidating those who may disagree with them. I was unimpressed with how Starmer went along with Corbyn, but then he managed to stay the course, unlike others: I guess this just makes him a "politician" with it's less pleasant connotations. And he is doing the right thing now in generally supporting the management of the Covid pandemic.

[johnofgwent]

Ok I'm confused


I understand you declaring you're going nowhere because that's playing right into starmers hands but surely the point is God knows how many came flooding in to vote for Corbyn (I certainly tried to, he was a gift to anyone to the right of Chairman Mao) and now the games up they've pissed off....


As in ...


https://www.theweek.co.uk/108737/labour-sees-exodus-in-protest-keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn-suspension

[srb7677]

All oppositions seem to be govts in waiting — ie, waiting for the govt in power to cock-up.
Not sure when Johnson's ignorance and cavalier attitude to Covid in early 2020 comes to light, whether he or the Tory party will suffer in the next general election. But it might just be that the late success his panic measures, after his late realisation of the seriousness, drown out the criticism and high death rate. 
And Starmer may or may not remain in situ. That depends if Labour can find someone more appealing...

An oversimplification perhaps but Starmer seems more focussed upon attacking the left of his own party than in opposing the Tories, giving us in many ways the worst of both worlds - a hopelessly divided and warring party in turmoil and discord offering a very weak opposition to the Tories. Something has to change because none of this is going to deliver a Labour government. The left need to be worked with, not attacked so that he and others do not keep generating party ill will internally and we can all move forward together, and the opposition to the Tories needs to be much more robust. The fact that Starmer comes across as personally boring doesn't help Labour's cause either.

But the local elections are almost upon us. Let's see how well or badly Labour does in those and if necessary act accordingly.

[patman post]

All oppositions seem to be govts in waiting — ie, waiting for the govt in power to cock-up.
Not sure when Johnson's ignorance and cavalier attitude to Covid in early 2020 comes to light, whether he or the Tory party will suffer in the next general election. But it might just be that the late success his panic measures, after his late realisation of the seriousness, drown out the criticism and high death rate. 
And Starmer may or may not remain in situ. That depends if Labour can find someone more appealing...

[B-4]

I guess we should thank Sir Starmer, provided I can remember his name long enough.

[HDQQ]

After all, Labour was in such wonderful condition when Starmer took over.

[cromwell]

What an absolute load of tripe.
For the many, not the few.

yes you're right Steve

[srb7677]

Well to be FAiR Thomas this is HARDLY s surprise now, is it.


Of those 100,000 it is starkly clear 5,000 were hardcore momentum members joining labour in order to repeat the infiltration of the party by Militant Tendency which ensured their doom in the political wilderness to which they were led by Michael Foot and the longest suicide note in history ....


The other 95,000 are departing Tories who only joined the party in the first place to vote JC4PM and thus ensure a Tory government at Westminster...


The what is it now 200k ? 400k ? JC4PM cultists dont know how to leave and seeing as JC's spin doctors are no longer programming them, they won't be leaving any time soon

What an absolute load of tripe.

[johnofgwent]

Keir Starmer has been leader of Labour for nearly one year. In that time, we have apparently lost over 100,000 members...

Well to be FAiR Thomas this is HARDLY s surprise now, is it.


Of those 100,000 it is starkly clear 5,000 were hardcore momentum members joining labour in order to repeat the infiltration of the party by Militant Tendency which ensured their doom in the political wilderness to which they were led by Michael Foot and the longest suicide note in history ....


The other 95,000 are departing Tories who only joined the party in the first place to vote JC4PM and thus ensure a Tory government at Westminster...


The what is it now 200k ? 400k ? JC4PM cultists dont know how to leave and seeing as JC's spin doctors are no longer programming them, they won't be leaving any time soon 

[srb7677]

Good god Steve you have turned in to a right whinger...

My bad.

And for a moment there I thought you were accusing me of turning into a right winger. 

[Thomas]

I reckon Starmer has achieved quite a lot in getting Labour a voice back in mainstream politics, since the fiasco of the Corbyn years.

What is "mainstream " ( two party british ) politics?

Two parties that have a fag paper between them policy wise?

I think you are misdiagnosing the problem.

"mainstream politics" is the problem , not jeremy corbyn , left or hard left labour , the brexit party , eurosceptic tories or whatever.

The failure of" mainstream politics" over the last 40 years if not more is why the uk is close to breaking point , and the national discontement across scotland , england and all the other home nations.

Yet you think starmers bringing labour back into "mainstream politics" as you call it is a good thing..............

[cromwell]

I reckon Starmer has achieved quite a lot in getting Labour a voice back in mainstream politics, since the fiasco of the Corbyn years. And there's probably a few more years before another general election, by which time he could well be able to build Labour into looking like a credible opposition. Let's hope so for the country's sake.
[highlight]One party in govt ruling by decree and swamping all opposition, may be needed in an emergency, but it's dangerous long-term...[/highlight]

And the last bit I do agree with

[patman post]

I reckon Starmer has achieved quite a lot in getting Labour a voice back in mainstream politics, since the fiasco of the Corbyn years. And there's probably a few more years before another general election, by which time he could well be able to build Labour into looking like a credible opposition. Let's hope so for the country's sake.
One party in govt ruling by decree and swamping all opposition, may be needed in an emergency, but it's dangerous long-term...

[cromwell]

I see the mutual backslappers are backing each other up again.

Do you?
Good god Steve you have turned in to a right whinger,the thanks button is there to show appreciation for a good post and Thomas posted well there.

My disdain for the direction labour has gone coincides with his and many others thoughts,on occasion he and they who disagree with you on this have thanked you for other of your posts even those that back up to a point that narrative.

I don't get your slant on this,you're an old forum hand........thanking someone who disagrees with you is not a personal slight nor is it a judgement of you as a person.

So just carry on in your thinking or look at the posts you've been thanked for and see if it's just backslapping.

You know what DD has called me liberal tosser and other names Thomas too and I've laughed and even thanked some of them.

In the end does any of this matter,is it going to affect the future and the world? No,just take this place for what it is an exchange of ideas with disagreements that sometimes get rowdy,funny,mad,serious and often informative.