The Reverend Dr Nigel Dilkes

[Barry]

It's the bible though. It does not mince its words on homosexuality. It's also logic because Christians follow Christ by definition, hence the name. If you follow Christ then you would actively preach the word of God. Churches should actively condemn it as they should condemn all sin. You keep getting mixed up here regarding judgment. Put it this way. If I said theft was immoral then I would not be judging all those who openly confess to being thieves. I would be talking about the sin, not the person. Judgment is different. Christians do not judge homosexuals, but merely state the Bible state that if you do it them it will count against you when god judges you. So the thou shalt not judge is specific in saying you do not assume the wisdom of god and decide personally if they should go to hell. What you do is like warn those who think about thieving to point out they could be nicked and sent to prison, so you still love them, because you are helping them in this regard. So please do make the distinction. Warning is not judgment.

I agree with that excellent explanation.  :hattip

[Baron von Lotsov]

I keep saying this but who are we to judge? It seems quite arrogant.

It's the bible though. It does not mince its words on homosexuality. It's also logic because Christians follow Christ by definition, hence the name. If you follow Christ then you would actively preach the word of God. Churches should actively condemn it as they should condemn all sin. You keep getting mixed up here regarding judgment. Put it this way. If I said theft was immoral then I would not be judging all those who openly confess to being thieves. I would be talking about the sin, not the person. Judgment is different. Christians do not judge homosexuals, but merely state the Bible state that if you do it them it will count against you when god judges you. So the thou shalt not judge is specific in saying you do not assume the wisdom of god and decide personally if they should go to hell. What you do is like warn those who think about thieving to point out they could be nicked and sent to prison, so you still love them, because you are helping them in this regard. So please do make the distinction. Warning is not judgment.

None of us is perfect yet some seem only too ready to cast the first stone. The Bible is full of direction and information as to how the Lord advises us to live, but it's a blueprint . If everyone was forced to live by those rules we would



 most certainly be living under the Adversary's rules and as a result none of us would know the difference between good and evil. The important thing is to love all. Only then will we follow Jesus.

When God the Father makes his final judgement we might all be very shocked to discover the truth about things that are considered sins. We simply don't know the whole truth in respect of individual circumstances or the mitigation they might receive or exactly when He will call an end.



Judgement is way above our pay grade.

Yes I agree with that. The idea is to do the best you can possibly do, and as we know, that involves helping others. It's like when I see posters in our town advertising cults. I often rip them down because I think, for every poster I do this to, the outcome will be that maybe one less person or more will not have their lives destroyed by the wickedness these people mean. The overall outcome is positive, as per more good than harm. What you need guidance in is what the best things are to do in order to achieve a better outcome than not doing anything. You have to be pro-active, because again we get back to Jesus who demonstrated that getting off your bum and interacting with society with the view to making things better is a virtuous thing to do.



Me personally - well I would have removed the flag, and in the case of this church in the OP, I would have done the same as what the vicar did. Unfortunately our main local church has invited evil cult leaders into the church so they can enact their wickedness. One in particular is great cause for worry. I see it clearly, but the church does not. My personal belief is that they have become blinded to what is going on. That's what evil does to you. it blinds you of the reality of the situation, and it can be a negative spiral as the more you don't see the more you stumble and fall. Clearly they do not have the Lord's guidance. It's ironic considering it is the town's main church. Maybe this vicar we talk of is part of a new breed invigorating the church with a rebirth of the faith. He's using his faith to assure him that god will protect him from the usual Twitter/Daily Mail/BBC storm.

[T00ts]

I keep saying this but who are we to judge? It seems quite arrogant. None of us is perfect yet some seem only too ready to cast the first stone. The Bible is full of direction and information as to how the Lord advises us to live, but it's a blueprint . If everyone was forced to live by those rules we would most certainly be living under the Adversary's rules and as a result none of us would know the difference between good and evil. The important thing is to love all. Only then will we follow Jesus.

When God the Father makes his final judgement we might all be very shocked to discover the truth about things that are considered sins. We simply don't know the whole truth in respect of individual circumstances or the mitigation they might receive or exactly when He will call an end.



Judgement is way above our pay grade.

[Baron von Lotsov]

:geek:



That clearly isn't the case since I've met some quite devout Christians who have no problem with homosexuality and even know a few gay Christians.



Christianity is not synonymous with homophobia.

Yes well I think we have a difference between say and do. Apparently in France 88% are Catholics, but they include about 50% "atheist Catholics" and it is therefore likely in France at at least that you would meet many homo-supporting "Christians". It's a problem in this country as well. If they were true to what the bible states then they would try and encourage those who practice homosexuality to give it up. They certainly would not think, well that's alright then, because the bible says it is wicked and they will go to hell unless they repent. By the way, I personally think homophobia is a misnomer, but I use the language of those who oppose Christianity just so we know what we are talking about. I'm presuming a homophobic means someone who thinks homosexuality is wicked and wrong.



Anyhow those who put the flag on the Cathedral were clearly looking for confrontation with Christians. It's like the flag of war, saying essentially we now control your church.

[Ciaphas]

:geek:

You just have to face the fact that all Christians are "Homophobic". It's because they follow the "Homophobic" bible. I can't see why that would trouble the homos though, because if it were a phobia, then they would be hiding in their cathedral, no?



The homos just need to stay out of the cathedral and put their flag somewhere else.

That clearly isn't the case since I've met some quite devout Christians who have no problem with homosexuality and even know a few gay Christians.



Christianity is not synonymous with homophobia.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Homophobia like that doesn't seem very Christian to me.

You just have to face the fact that all Christians are "Homophobic". It's because they follow the "Homophobic" bible. I can't see why that would trouble the homos though, because if it were a phobia, then they would be hiding in their cathedral, no?



The homos just need to stay out of the cathedral and put their flag somewhere else.

[Ciaphas]

Dr Nigel Dilkes is just smarter than most of the people who run churches are. He will know why yoga is being popularised.



Actually one of the most offensive things I've seen in recent years is that there was a cathedral over in/near(?) East Anglia and I saw a photo of it flying the homosexual flag. That's just plain old infiltration. It's like the depraved are sticking two fingers up at church society, saying ha ha, we win you stupid fools. I don't expect them to win in this church though. It will probably increase its popularity as a Christian church.

Homophobia like that doesn't seem very Christian to me.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Dr Nigel Dilkes is just smarter than most of the people who run churches are. He will know why yoga is being popularised.



Actually one of the most offensive things I've seen in recent years is that there was a cathedral over in/near(?) East Anglia and I saw a photo of it flying the homosexual flag. That's just plain old infiltration. It's like the depraved are sticking two fingers up at church society, saying ha ha, we win you stupid fools. I don't expect them to win in this church though. It will probably increase its popularity as a Christian church.

[patman post]

This is the other way around.



1) If you wanted wanted a part for a Ford and asked at an Audi garage you would be turned away. Sorry Sir, we only do spares for Ford.



2) If you want to do yoga and turned up to a church you get turned away. Sorry Sir we only do activities compatible with Christians here.



The difference between one and two is that for one we think 'derrrrr, stupid me', and for two we think, the prime minister should intervene.

I suggest an Audi garage that turned away someone wanting a part for a Ford with the response: "Sorry Sir, we only do spares for Ford," needs more help than Yoga or Pilates can give...

[Barry]

Isn't church a social club?

The majority of them might as well be, sadly.  

[Ciaphas]

One theory is the modernists have driven people away from churches. The thing is if you want to go to a social club you'd go to a social club and not really a church.



I was in Malta few years back on Christmas Eve and I went to this church with my woman, and you could hardly squeeze in there were so many people.

Isn't church a social club?

[Baron von Lotsov]

Its not like anyone goes to church anymore. Put that space to some good use.

One theory is the modernists have driven people away from churches. The thing is if you want to go to a social club you'd go to a social club and not really a church.



I was in Malta few years back on Christmas Eve and I went to this church with my woman, and you could hardly squeeze in there were so many people.

[Ciaphas]

Its not like anyone goes to church anymore. Put that space to some good use.

[Nalaar]

They feel it's an overreaction.



As I mentioned before, I'm all for it, the more hardline the church can be on issues like Yoga groups, the more people will take them less seriously.

[Baron von Lotsov]

And yet the Christians I spoke with today at work said they thought that Dilkes has got it wrong.



So apparently Audi drivers think you should be able to get Ford Parts at an Audi garage  :shrg:

I see, well considering I have not spoken to them, it is hard for me to say anything regarding that. Did they explain why Dr Nigel Dilkes' reasons for asserting it was right were actually wrong?



You see when two people say I'm right/you're wrong respectively, then if one gives reasons and the other does not, I'm inclined to be biased towards the reasonable man. I guess that makes me "reasonable", and even more than that, if I were communicating a view and the view had accompanying reasons to support it, then I would communicate view + reasons, as I would think the reasons were as important as the view. It's how a scientist works. He publishes the result and also how he got the result. The paper would be rejected otherwise.