Now I know this country is mad

[johnofgwent]

Really John? weird or not they're more part of the UK than the Republic of Ireland and they get free on the NHS

Been busy drinking.


Oh if you mean how do the people feel, the few I knew while freelancing were the most pro-union  knew. Its the legal side of it I referred to.

[Thomas]

Well I regard the IOM  as so close to us certainly more than the republic anyway as said the govt are rectifying this so hat all care is reciprocal,

It doesnt matter a jot your "personal regard" for the isle of man , or wether you think the british isles are all one big homongeous country . What matters is the lady in the story isnt a uk citizen , and she wasnt entitled to the xtra 24 k worth of care so she was billed. As it should be .

As far as the NHS I do feel for those on the front line but it's bureaucracy that seems to me lacking

I dont. There are good and bad doctors and nurses , simply by being on the "front line" doesnt mean they deserve some special status of hero worship. They should be honoured for going above and beyond the call of duty , not for simply doing their job.

Its this sort of hero worship that in my opinion has to stop , before we can even begin to sort out the various issues in our differing countires nhs systems.

,why is that because the two parties have used it as a football,it is a national resource that should be above party politics.

Not sure i agree here again. Labour have always put the nhs on a pedestal as their own pet prject , not for the good of the nhs or the ordinary people , but simply for personal brownie points with the voting public.

Its no longer a national resource in any of our nations , and needs looked at and masively changed in my opinion.

It cannot possibly do everything regarding modern medicine

i dont think anyone is claiming it should , merely it needs to be more accountable and self sufficient , starting with health tourists who need dealt with pragmatically rather than navel gazing about perceptions of britishness allowing people a free ride as in this case , hence why we disagree on this subject.

[cromwell]

I dont think it is cromwell. The point being if people who dont pay into the pot or arent entitled to use it constantly keep abusing the free at the point of use nhs , then surely its going to have a detrimental effect on the various nhs systems and affect the quality , or lack of quality of service?

You can't keep having freeloaders abusing any system and then demanding more and more taxpayers money each year ? There has to be some sort of accountability?

I agree. This woman is one of them , hence the 24 k bill she received. People across the world are laughing at us , whilst abusing our generosity.

Dont agree in the slightest for the reasons already given. No one is more entitled than anyone else who are non citizens.

The point is they arent entitled for a free ride at our expense , while those of us who pay into this system are constantly being told we need to fork out more and more each year for an ever declining service.

The nhs  is a feckin joke in all our countries at the minute , and needs sorting root and branch starting with health tourists like this. Its nothing more than one big unnacountable pit of piss takers demanding more and more money each year for an ever decreasing quality of service.

Well I regard the IOM  as so close to us certainly more than the republic anyway as said the govt are rectifying this so hat all care is reciprocal,

As far as the NHS I do feel for those on the front line but it's bureaucracy that seems to me lacking,why is that because the two parties have used it as a football,it is a national resource that should be above party politics.

It cannot possibly do everything regarding modern medicine,things that annoy are people who sod off to some godforsaken part of the world to make their bum/tits/face different then get sepsis or whatever,do we let hem die? of course not but we should make them pay to be made well again.

[Thomas]

Fair enough Thomas though the state of the NHS is a separate issue.

I dont think it is cromwell. The point being if people who dont pay into the pot or arent entitled to use it constantly keep abusing the free at the point of use nhs , then surely its going to have a detrimental effect on the various nhs systems and affect the quality , or lack of quality of service?

You cant keep having freeloaders abusing any system and then demanding more and more taxpayers money each year ? There has to be some sort of accountability?

My main gripe in the op was that people rock up here with no connection to this country at all,an example given Barry's reply but there are other cases too.

I agree. This woman is one of them , hence the 24 k bill she received. People across the world are laughing at us , whilst abusing our generosity.

As to your final point as why should someone from a crown dependency (in this case the IOM) get free medical care,well given the examples above they are more entitled IMO.

Dont agree in the slightest for the reasons already given. No one is more entitled than anyone else who are non citizens.

The point is they arent entitled for a free ride at our expense , while those of us who pay into this system are constantly being told we need to fork out more and more each year for an ever declining service.

The nhs  is a feckin joke in all our countries at the minute , and needs sorting root and branch starting with health tourists like this. Its nothing more than one big unnacountable pit of piss takers demanding more and more money each year for an ever decreasing quality of service.

[HDQQ]

What are you on about,the Isle of Man isn't a foreign country its part of the British Isles,she's more British than most of bloody London.

But it's not part of the UK and it never has been. It has its own government and makes its own laws. It's a crown dependency, with similar status to Canada or Australia.

I'd have thought there would have been a reciprocal arrangement regarding funding healthcare though. People visiting Britain who are taken ill during their stay should be treated the same as British citizens as far as the NHS goes. People who come here specifically for treatment are a different matter but the lady who got the unfortunate bill wasn't a 'health tourist' as far as I understand.

[cromwell]

Not sure i agree with you at all cromwell.

We have had this discussion many a time over the years, this constant conflation by people of the united kingdom of gb and ni , and the british isles , britain  , etc which as you know are not one and the same.

Some english people especially tend to get overly hung up over this , where they see the british isles as some sort of greater england all under westmisnter control. You are confusing a geographical term , with the term used for a multi national sovereign state.

A foreign country by definition is a country/nation/state that you are not a citizen of. Hence , you are a citizen of the uk , not of the isle of man , and vice versa with mrs morrison of this story. The IOM is not part of the UK.

You and mrs morrison might be british citizens , but as we have discussed many a time , this is simply incorrect wording by westminster to somhow imply the continuation of the old empire where a citizen of far flung place like india also had british citizen status , but this didnt make them part of the UK state.

You then go on to conflate a crown dependency with UK status.  A crown dependency is linked to the british crown , not the uk state. Many countries as we know are linked to the british crown  , and the queen head of state. It doesnt necessarily allow those citizens to come here and use the various nhs systems.

As for your point a "crown dependency " should somehow render the resident the ability to use the various nhs systems across the uk  , which as we know again  are all seperate , not a uk system , i was just reading there that although crown dependencies have reciprocal agereements in place  , you are advised first of all if you go to say gibraltar to live from manchester , then you have to check first to see what you are covered for.

So perhaps rather than just automatically assuming she was entitled to free care on the "English" nhs , she should have checked first.

I think the general consensus  , even in the differing nhs systems across the uk , is that we are fast approaching the end of the free at the point of use system and my personal belief is we should change towards a french style system .

Until we can have a sensible converstaion on the various nhs systems , and that isnt likely in my view in the near future in any of our countries , as politicians have used it as an uncriticisable god whose altar we all have to worship on , then we will continue the downward spiral of increasingly poor service and treatment.

Its not a pleasant story , and i feel sorry for the lady , but i think this automatic assumption that seems to be in place by non citizens of free treatment at our expense has to be dealt with.

You can't get free elderly/personal/residential care in scotland under our nhs ,or your  teenage relatives get free tuition at a scottish university , despite us both (unfortunately ) being uk citizens so why should a non uk citizen albeit of a crown dependency be allowed free care in your health system?

Fair enough Thomas though the state of the NHS is a separate issue.

My main gripe in the op was that people rock up here with no connection to this country at all,an example given Barry's reply but there are other cases too.

As to your final point as why should someone from a crown dependency (in this case the IOM) get free medical care,well given the examples above they are more entitled IMO.

[Thomas]

No it isn't a foreign country,it's a crown dependency in any event the UK govt have accepted that it's an anomaly and are going to rectify it.

The number of foreign nationals in London are high,many might pay in to the pot but there also those that don't and where a rented 3 bed house sleeps twenty or more people some with no entitlement to be here earning n the side or claiming benefits which are sent back home.

Things you've complained about yourself in the past,also whilst the wording in a passport varies to a normal British passport they are British citizens.

Not sure i agree with you at all cromwell.

We have had this discussion many a time over the years, this constant conflation by people of the united kingdom of gb and ni , and the british isles , britain  , etc which as you know are not one and the same.

Some english people especially tend to get overly hung up over this , where they see the british isles as some sort of greater england all under westmisnter control. You are confusing a geographical term , with the term used for a multi national sovereign state.

A foreign country by definition is a country/nation/state that you are not a citizen of. Hence , you are a citizen of the uk , not of the isle of man , and vice versa with mrs morrison of this story. The IOM is not part of the UK.

You and mrs morrison might be british citizens , but as we have discussed many a time , this is simply incorrect wording by westminster to somhow imply the continuation of the old empire where a citizen of far flung place like india also had british citizen status , but this didnt make them part of the UK state.

You then go on to conflate a crown dependency with UK status.  A crown dependency is linked to the british crown , not the uk state. Many countries as we know are linked to the british crown  , and the queen head of state. It doesnt necessarily allow those citizens to come here and use the various nhs systems.

As for your point a "crown dependency " should somehow render the resident the ability to use the various nhs systems across the uk  , which as we know again  are all seperate , not a uk system , i was just reading there that although crown dependencies have reciprocal agereements in place  , you are advised first of all if you go to say gibraltar to live from manchester , then you have to check first to see what you are covered for.

So perhaps rather than just automatically assuming she was entitled to free care on the "English" nhs , she should have checked first.

I think the general consensus  , even in the differing nhs systems across the uk , is that we are fast approaching the end of the free at the point of use system and my personal belief is we should change towards a french style system .

Until we can have a sensible converstaion on the various nhs systems , and that isnt likely in my view in the near future in any of our countries , as politicians have used it as an uncriticisable god whose altar we all have to worship on , then we will continue the downward spiral of increasingly poor service and treatment.

Its not a pleasant story , and i feel sorry for the lady , but i think this automatic assumption that seems to be in place by non citizens of free treatment at our expense has to be dealt with.

You cant get free elderly/personal/residential care in scotland under our nhs ,or your  teenage relatives get free tuition at a scottish university , despite us both (unfortunately ) being uk citizens so why should a non uk citizen albeit of a crown dependency be allowed free care in your health system?

[cromwell]

Yes there are many illegal immigrants in London (among other places ) and those in the black economy . I thought you were talking about foreign nationals in general , like me for instance . 

But yes the Manx , regardless of their citizenship and what it says in their passport they don't contribute to the NHS and like all the illegals and freeloaders from around the world they should be paying for it when they use it .

No I wasn't talking about you,seems you've been here forever and paid your fair share just too bloody lazy to get the passport

[patman post]

No I had a relative who had a heart attack over there and treated very well at the Nobles hospital and wasn't charged a bean.

The stumbling block in Ms Morrisons's case seems to be the three-months rule. If your relative was receiving treatment on the IoM for longer, then the current arrangement appears lopsided...

[Streetwalker]

No it isn't a foreign country,it's a crown dependency in any event the UK govt have accepted that it's an anomaly and are going to rectify it.

The number of foreign nationals in London are high,many might pay in to the pot but there also those that don't and where a rented 3 bed house sleeps twenty or more people some with no entitlement to be here earning n the side or claiming benefits which are sent back home.

Things you've complained about yourself in the past,also whilst the wording in a passport varies to a normal British passport they are British citizens.

Yes there are many illegal immigrants in London (among other places ) and those in the black economy . I thought you were talking about foreign nationals in general , like me for instance . 

But yes the Manx , regardless of their citizenship and what it says in their passport they don't contribute to the NHS and like all the illegals and freeloaders from around the world they should be paying for it when they use it .

[cromwell]

I suspect I would also assume I was covered by the NHS if I was an Isle of Man resident travelling in the UK. But I'm not surprised that isn't currently the case.

The IoM flaunts, and does well from, its low tax status, so maybe this is another tax loophole the UK needs to clear up. 

As an aside, doers anyone know if a UK resident struck down with similar serious illness while visiting the IoM would be faced with the same costs...?

No I had a relative who had a heart attack over there and treated very well at the Nobles hospital and wasn't charged a bean.

[patman post]

I suspect I would also assume I was covered by the NHS if I was an Isle of Man resident travelling in the UK. But I'm not surprised that isn't currently the case.

The IoM flaunts, and does well from, its low tax status, so maybe this is another tax loophole the UK needs to clear up. 

As an aside, doers anyone know if a UK resident struck down with similar serious illness while visiting the IoM would be faced with the same costs...?

[cromwell]

Yes it is ,a foreign country that is , part of the British Isle but not part of the UK and has a reciprocal arrangement with the UK as do many countries . 
Some have  a better deal than others the IOM has an emergency treatment only not ongoing healthcare and would repeat she was daft not to have medical insurance when traveling outside her Island .
She pays no taxes into the pot which funds the NHS  unlike the Londoners you mention who although maybe not British are resident and paying in .

No it isn't a foreign country,it's a crown dependency in any event the UK govt have accepted that it's an anomaly and are going to rectify it.

The number of foreign nationals in London are high,many might pay in to the pot but there also those that don't and where a rented 3 bed house sleeps twenty or more people some with no entitlement to be here earning n the side or claiming benefits which are sent back home.

Things you've complained about yourself in the past,also whilst the wording in a passport varies to a normal British passport they are British citizens.

[Sheepy]

No worries, Cromwell. You can make a donation here - looks like she's nearly half way, already.
https://uk.gofundme.com/f/help-nikki-morrison-pay-her-nhs-medical-bills (Go fund me page)

Now, if she had just landed on Hastings beach, everything would be free. She forgot to say "ASYLUM", which this country clearly has become.

Mmmm well that new world order mission has certainly caused a few problems I am thinking it wasn't very well thought out or very bright. I guess we had better prepare for their next phase, climate action under the guise of all for the greater good then, we now have a whole generation of believers even if they don't have a clue what gender they are, wheras I would just say completely and utterly psychologically fecked.

[Barry]

Considering the number of people who rock up on these shores for free NHS treatment and some poor sod from the IOM gets billed you know there's something wrong.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-58462421

No worries, Cromwell. You can make a donation here - looks like she's nearly half way, already.
https://uk.gofundme.com/f/help-nikki-morrison-pay-her-nhs-medical-bills (Go fund me page)

Now, if she had just landed on Hastings beach, everything would be free. She forgot to say "ASYLUM", which this country clearly has become.