And that’s JENGA.

[Conchúr]

I'm sorry to read your response. They do say that attack is the best form of defence. I hope I'm a nice person and even if I was not, I am entitled to my opinion. It's not my fault that it doesn't chime with yours. I guess we just need to disagree. I must say that you are the first person to ever describe me as arrogant, I must try harder.

But Toots, when you made a point I questioned it — and I substantiated what I was saying. I don't just roll on here and say "oh you're wrong but I'm not going to tell you why I think that".  Your point was that Varadkar magnified the border disproportionately into a massive problem. This is factually incorrect.  It is demonstrably incorrect. Yet when I point this out to you. . .you simply say that I read the "wrong press" — which I find to be a remarkable cop-out.



Brexit has reached a point of possible progress precisely because the British government finally accepted that Ireland and the EU were correct about the border and that the UK's previous proposals were unworkable. If the UK had listened to Varadkar from the start you would have had the same deal without years being wasted — but here we are, on the cusp of the new decade and the UK is finally in a position to agree to the eminently sensible proposals the EU and Ireland have been making for over two years.



If I'm wrong, tell me why.

[Borchester]

Yes Ireland will be impacted, getting the Withdrawal agreement finished was the key objective, Johnson changing that so a hard border in Ireland won't happen was he key objective as that was the biggest problem inflicted on us by the UK. Thankfully Johnson changed May's agreement to solidify our goal.

As for a future deal, the UK knows what's on offer, being a EU member for so many years it knows exactly what's on offer. All it needs to do is pick a level of integration it's happy with and run with that deal. The closer the integration the better the deal for very obvious reasons.



Luckily IRL is a small country and has been able over the past 3 yrs to shift a lot of it's UK exports to other EU countries, reducing exports to the UK to 11% of total UK exports. We import more, about 22%, but alot of this were UK agencies for EU goods so we cn just cut the middle man out and deal direct.



Whats the UK plan for its exports, imports and more importantly Services industry ??

[GerryT]

Shouldn't you be worrying about your own country Gerry?

Yes Ireland will be impacted, getting the Withdrawal agreement finished was the key objective, Johnson changing that so a hard border in Ireland won't happen was he key objective as that was the biggest problem inflicted on us by the UK. Thankfully Johnson changed May's agreement to solidify our goal.

As for a future deal, the UK knows what's on offer, being a EU member for so many years it knows exactly what's on offer. All it needs to do is pick a level of integration it's happy with and run with that deal. The closer the integration the better the deal for very obvious reasons.



Luckily IRL is a small country and has been able over the past 3 yrs to shift a lot of it's UK exports to other EU countries, reducing exports to the UK to 11% of total UK exports. We import more, about 22%, but alot of this were UK agencies for EU goods so we cn just cut the middle man out and deal direct.



Whats the UK plan for its exports, imports and more importantly Services industry ??

[GerryT]

Oh yes, he has. Of course, this doesn't time limit the EU, who obviously have no need to hurry up with any trade deal with an insignificant "3rd country".

Why would they be in any hurry ? the EU has over 40 FREE trade deals covering 70 countries, it also has bi-lateral agreements with the USA. The UK has zero, there's a difference.

People also confuse the "the EU sells more to us than we do to them". They forget the size of the markets, the UK sells over 40% of it's exports to the EU, the EU sells about 7% of theirs to the UK.

All in all the UK is in a bad way without a deal. Or how do you see it ?

[Barry]

 What will be interesting is how Johnson gets on with the future trade deal. He must be very confident, so much so that he's put a time limit on himself.

Oh yes, he has. Of course, this doesn't time limit the EU, who obviously have no need to hurry up with any trade deal with an insignificant "3rd country".

[GerryT]

It's lovely to see you back here, Gerry, worrying about our arrangements with the EU. The thing is we voted in the Tories with a whopping majority and we will now sit back whilst they "Get Brexit done". No need for you to worry at all, Gerry.

Agh thanks. But I don't worry, as for getting brexit done that was always the easy bit. Trigger art 50 and leave, that's "getting brexit done". The difficult bit has always been to first agree the withdrawal agreement and then the very difficult bit, agreeing a future trade relationship.



Thanks to T. May the withdrawal agreement got sorted, Johnson dabbled with it and made the deal worse for the UK, better for England, but worse for the UK. What will be interesting is how Johnson gets on with the future trade deal. He must be very confident, so much so that he's put a time limit on himself.

[T00ts]

Honestly, Toots....you seem like a very nice person but you so often stray into the territory of saying things without any substance.



Right....so you say Varadkar workd hard to "magnify the border as a massive problem". If that is true, then why has Boris agreed that special provision for Northern Ireland is needed ?  This is precisely what Varadkar and the EU argued for, and it has since been agreed by Boris as part of his [allegedly-renogitated-but-not-different-in substance] Withdrawal Agreement. So what are you talking about ? If it was such a false issue then why has the current government backtracked on all the wonderful magical solutions being proposed on the border ? Because those proposals were garbage Toots.  If you disagree, tell me why, with empirical substance.



You say that Varadkar seem worried like it was some sort of amazing insight. The Irish government has literally spelled out the fact that it is worried about Brexit and continues to be so. But you don't read the Irish press do you? You read British press interpretations and base your opinions on those.  Then you come on here and spout the most supreme arrogance that I read the "wrong press". Honestly, that's one of the most depressing things I have ever read on here.



All I can say to you Toots, oh mighty arbiter of valid press sources, is that if you want to adopt a position of supreme arrogance as to you reading the right press and others reading the "wrong press", then back your opinions up with objective evaluation.

I'm sorry to read your response. They do say that attack is the best form of defence. I hope I'm a nice person and even if I was not, I am entitled to my opinion. It's not my fault that it doesn't chime with yours. I guess we just need to disagree. I must say that you are the first person to ever describe me as arrogant, I must try harder.

[Borchester]

You say that Varadkar seem worried like it was some sort of amazing insight. The Irish government has literally spelled out the fact that it is worried about Brexit and continues to be so. But you don't read the Irish press do you? ......

You mean the articles in the Irish Times which seem to be all about Irish beef and poultry farmers complaining that the retailers are driving prices down and that they are facing bankruptcy as a result? Somehow I don't see Irish farmers cutting themselves off from UK markets but then maybe the Irish press is telling porkies as well?

[Conchúr]

No deal at the end of 2020 with no 'escape route' by way of extension rather leaves the EU with a problem. All BJ will do is cut off the EU's exit. So far the 'war' was being fought with constant prevarication and claims of our indecision causing chaos. Suddenly BJ is cutting a clear path. Ireland has a problem if we leave no deal.  Varadkar worked very hard to magnify the border as a massive problem. They will be isolated especially if NI decides to stick with us rather than accept reunification. I have often mentioned on the old forum how worried I thought Varadkar appeared. Suddenly he has become insignificant and he will be looking for ways to make a deal certain. The whole focus has shifted from trying tie us into staying to trying to tie us with a deal.

I just hope our negotiators are on the ball.

Honestly, Toots....you seem like a very nice person but you so often stray into the territory of saying things without any substance.



Right....so you say Varadkar workd hard to "magnify the border as a massive problem". If that is true, then why has Boris agreed that special provision for Northern Ireland is needed ?  This is precisely what Varadkar and the EU argued for, and it has since been agreed by Boris as part of his [allegedly-renogitated-but-not-different-in substance] Withdrawal Agreement. So what are you talking about ? If it was such a false issue then why has the current government backtracked on all the wonderful magical solutions being proposed on the border ? Because those proposals were garbage Toots.  If you disagree, tell me why, with empirical substance.



You say that Varadkar seem worried like it was some sort of amazing insight. The Irish government has literally spelled out the fact that it is worried about Brexit and continues to be so. But you don't read the Irish press do you? You read British press interpretations and base your opinions on those.  Then you come on here and spout the most supreme arrogance that I read the "wrong press". Honestly, that's one of the most depressing things I have ever read on here.



All I can say to you Toots, oh mighty arbiter of valid press sources, is that if you want to adopt a position of supreme arrogance as to you reading the right press and others reading the "wrong press", then back your opinions up with objective evaluation.

[T00ts]

I agree. There's a real air of confidence everywhere I go. People are talking about how well we did to get rid of the prevaricators from the last government.

However, I have noticed the Ireland worriers have been really busy here today, since the spectre of "no trade deal" has raised its head again.

Are they worried about the UK sinking without a trade deal, or is it something else?

Maybe the Irish want an election of their own?

No deal at the end of 2020 with no 'escape route' by way of extension rather leaves the EU with a problem. All BJ will do is cut off the EU's exit. So far the 'war' was being fought with constant prevarication and claims of our indecision causing chaos. Suddenly BJ is cutting a clear path. Ireland has a problem if we leave no deal.  Varadkar worked very hard to magnify the border as a massive problem. They will be isolated especially if NI decides to stick with us rather than accept reunification. I have often mentioned on the old forum how worried I thought Varadkar appeared. Suddenly he has become insignificant and he will be looking for ways to make a deal certain. The whole focus has shifted from trying tie us into staying to trying to tie us with a deal.

I just hope our negotiators are on the ball.

[Barry]

There has been a whole sea change with the GE result that might escape some. I feel that now we have a government that can finally be in the driving seat. No need for any pseudo concern for our future any longer. The UK is no longer the under dog.

I agree. There's a real air of confidence everywhere I go. People are talking about how well we did to get rid of the prevaricators from the last government.

However, I have noticed the Ireland worriers have been really busy here today, since the spectre of "no trade deal" has raised its head again.

Are they worried about the UK sinking without a trade deal, or is it something else?

Maybe the Irish want an election of their own?

[cromwell]

How does this help, the UK leaves the EU on 31st Jan 2020. Brexit happens on 31st Jan 2020.



What Johnson has done is limit the time he has to negotiate a future trade deal that he says he will get. A deal he will be negotiating while outside the EU after Brexit.



If you think that the EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU then this strategy might make sense, is that it ?



or



If you think that the meaning of a mutually beneficial trade deal is where the UK and EU are on a level playing field with two equal parties striking a deal, is that it ?



There is a reality that hasn't yet struck home in the UK, after brexit the UK is a third country to the EU and it will be treated exactly the same as every other 3rd country. That's with respect.  But the EU has no incentive to rush a half baked deal through, with a 1yr time limit the EU will offer a take it or leave it deal, there's little or no time to do something bespoke. What Johnson is doing won't focus minds, it makes it near impossible for the UK, Johnson strikes again.

Shouldn't you be worrying about your own country Gerry?

Sharon Donnery, Deputy Governor of Central Banking, said: "The risks arising from Brexit, especially a 'hard' or disruptive Brexit, are far-reaching for Ireland.

[T00ts]

It's lovely to see you back here, Gerry, worrying about our arrangements with the EU. The thing is we voted in the Tories with a whopping majority and we will now sit back whilst they "Get Brexit done". No need for you to worry at all, Gerry.

There has been a whole sea change with the GE result that might escape some. I feel that now we have a government that can finally be in the driving seat. No need for any pseudo concern for our future any longer. The UK is no longer the under dog.

[Barry]

It's lovely to see you back here, Gerry, worrying about our arrangements with the EU. The thing is we voted in the Tories with a whopping majority and we will now sit back whilst they "Get Brexit done". No need for you to worry at all, Gerry.

[GerryT]

How does this help, the UK leaves the EU on 31st Jan 2020. Brexit happens on 31st Jan 2020.



What Johnson has done is limit the time he has to negotiate a future trade deal that he says he will get. A deal he will be negotiating while outside the EU after Brexit.



If you think that the EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU then this strategy might make sense, is that it ?



or



If you think that the meaning of a mutually beneficial trade deal is where the UK and EU are on a level playing field with two equal parties striking a deal, is that it ?



There is a reality that hasn't yet struck home in the UK, after brexit the UK is a third country to the EU and it will be treated exactly the same as every other 3rd country. That's with respect.  But the EU has no incentive to rush a half baked deal through, with a 1yr time limit the EU will offer a take it or leave it deal, there's little or no time to do something bespoke. What Johnson is doing won't focus minds, it makes it near impossible for the UK, Johnson strikes again.