You thought Labour had lost it? The Tories have too!

[Sheepy]

They might not be quiet so right as to be alt-right. But the Tory party was taken over before the last election.
The party is now in Parliament to a large degree a party within a party. That's obvious from the amount of good solid Tories purged from the ranks of influence in Parliament.
All to many of the rural constituencies are just not open to Labour, rightfully or otherwise,. If I want to actually have a chance to remove our local Tory, it's the Lib Dems. It's not ideal, but it doesn't waste my vote.

Well you know what they say, Good Old if you are going to turn up and take on the regime no good playing the same game as them or you just become one of them like new labour and the limp dems. 

[Good old]

I've been politically homeless since Nick Clegg gave my vote to the Tories. I voted Labour somewhat reluctantly in the last general election. I would vote Labour more enthusiastically with Kier Starmer as their leader but I'm also in the process of reconciling myself with supporting the Lib Dems. In the end it's down voting for which ever party is most likely to oust the Tories in my constituency.

And in the end I'd rather have metropolitan liberals in charge than irresponsible idiots like we have now or alt-right wreckers who are waiting to seize control of the Tory Party.

They might not be quiet so right as to be alt-right. But the Tory party was taken over before the last election.
The party is now in Parliament to a large degree a party within a party. That's obvious from the amount of good solid Tories purged from the ranks of influence in Parliament. 
All to many of the rural constituencies are just not open to Labour, rightfully or otherwise,. If I want to actually have a chance to remove our local Tory, it's the Lib Dems. It's not ideal, but it doesn't waste my vote.

[HDQQ]

The fact that so many people of so many different and varying political persuasions feel politically homeless itself illustrates a massive problem. 

I've been politically homeless since Nick Clegg gave my vote to the Tories. I voted Labour somewhat reluctantly in the last general election. I would vote Labour more enthusiastically with Kier Starmer as their leader but I'm also in the process of reconciling myself with supporting the Lib Dems. In the end it's down voting for which ever party is most likely to oust the Tories in my constituency.

And in the end I'd rather have metropolitan liberals in charge than irresponsible idiots like we have now or alt-right wreckers who are waiting to seize control of the Tory Party.

[srb7677]

Yours sincerely, Politically Homeless.

We have very different perspectives, you and I, but I could have typed exactly those same words. My former party has been irretrievably stolen from me, by a bunch of affluent metropolitian liberals wedded to the status quo that they personally do so well out of. And I could never vote Tory.

The fact that so many people of so many different and varying political persuasions feel politically homeless itself illustrates a massive problem. Our political system itself is not fit for purpose. It is not representative enough. I and others like me - there are millions of us - should be represented in parliament. You and others like you, Barry - and there are probably millions of you too - should be represented in parliament. Every substantially held opinion out there should be represented in parliament. But the two party, FPTP, stitch up prevents that. 

[Sheepy]

I think that should have said without, but don't remember now.
In similar news about 50,000 truckers are going to Ontario to protest about Trudeau's crazy Covid policy.
In response, Trudeau has gone into self isolation as he learned he may have been exposed to the virus.
I'd probably hide faced with 50,000 angry truckers!
Trudeau has already said that these 50,000 people do not represent Canadians.

It shouldn't be amusing but however much you tell people they are all saying the same things using different wording, they still think there is no agenda.

[Barry]

Have you seen Trudeau in Canada stopping people travelling with a jab. (It's not a vaccine).

I think that should have said without, but don't remember now.
In similar news about 50,000 truckers are going to Ontario to protest about Trudeau's crazy Covid policy.
In response, Trudeau has gone into self isolation as he learned he may have been exposed to the virus.
I'd probably hide faced with 50,000 angry truckers!
Trudeau has already said that these 50,000 people do not represent Canadians.

[johnofgwent]

This will initially look like a curious admission from a socialist but I have never read Das Kapital but have read Mein Kampf.

This latter fact has nothing to do with my politics of course and everything to do with the fact that I have been a lifelong student of the history of the Third Reich.

Hitler had a reputation for being a good speaker, but let me tell you he was no literary genius. Quite apart from the obnoxious content, his writings were full of repetitive rubbish, long digressions and frankly was an utterly boring read. It was a struggle to get through.

Good for yiu. I don't find it strange at all.


I've read both by the way, being stuck in grotty B&b's all week but having a kindle will do that to you. I cannot say I felt inspired by either.


I've read several dozen "sacred texts" too courtesy of a website called, unsurprisingly the "sacred texts archive".


Mind you I read Richard Burton's translation of the Koran in the 70s and the Baghvad Gita too. And the Book of Mormon.


It is probably too "combative" to say I read them in hope of better understanding my enemy but it's not far off. Opponent might be a better word.

[Borchester]

Hitler had a reputation for being a good speaker, but let me tell you he was no literary genius. Quite apart from the obnoxious content, his writings were full of repetitive rubbish, long digressions and frankly was an utterly boring read. It was a struggle to get through.

True. But then most political writings are. I was once stuck in a caravan on a Welsh hillside with nothing to with nothing to do but watch the rain and read Shirley Williams' account of the formation of the Social Democratic party. That was nearly 40 years ago, but I still has flashbacks and wake up screaming.

[srb7677]

I could never get into Mein Kampf. It always reminded me of the querulous drone of a young foggie sipping on a glass of Sainsbury's port. And Das Kapital spent the first chapter going on and on about the fact that anything would do as a medium of exchange (no shit Charlie!) and the second that the value could change. Marx never used one word when fifty would do.

Not particularly bad books, but both would have done a lot better with some serious editing.

This will initially look like a curious admission from a socialist but I have never read Das Kapital but have read Mein Kampf.

This latter fact has nothing to do with my politics of course and everything to do with the fact that I have been a lifelong student of the history of the Third Reich.

Hitler had a reputation for being a good speaker, but let me tell you he was no literary genius. Quite apart from the obnoxious content, his writings were full of repetitive rubbish, long digressions and frankly was an utterly boring read. It was a struggle to get through.

[HDQQ]

The source quoted in the original post is Breitbart, which is somewhat toxic.

However, on a general note, as I've said before, Labour might not have the bar set very high at the next election if the Tories become very unpopular. At the moment they still seem to have a degree of popularity but if the next election coincides with a public mood which blames the Tories for the woes of our nation, that could be Boris's (or his successor's) downfall.

[Borchester]

There's so many disparate points gathered together there, it's really turned into a rag rug of an argument.

The government was elected with an overwhelming majority to run the country. In emergencies there's no time to hold referendums. And after a hesitant start at the beginning of 2020 — during which time top politicians overrode the science, ignored the available data, reversed, rethought and generally made a dog's breakfast of making decisions — the majority of the electorate went along with hand washing, social distancing, mask wearing, working from home, etc, etc, etc.   

Most of this was left to the public to choose to do and carry out. My own choice was/is — having the benefit of information from someone in the hands-on front line of the NHS — to avoid those who choose to ignore the health recommendations. 

And during this time there remain many crucial actions to taken. By the time 1000 days have passed we, the electorate, will have a chance to vote. We can agree their agendas. We can heckle candidates through all the media. We can even stand ourselves if we can find support and feel that strongly. But in the end, many will vote for the party the feel will accommodate, or is already a home to, their ideas.

Apologies for being personal, but I regard you as a Jeremiah doom merchant, but without a practical constructive idea to offer...

To be fair, Barry has made the excellent point that running around like blue bummed flies is no way for adults to react to a flu outbreak. That said, people aren't logical and so the government was forced to do all sorts of silly things to satisfy public opinion.

At the risk of repeating myself, the problem is my mate John. He is a complete piss head who smokes like a chimney, but wears a mask because he is afraid of catching the Peking Pox. It is completely senseless, but he is a voter so the government has to pander to the old fool and millions like him.

[Barry]

Apologies for being personal, but I regard you as a Jeremiah doom merchant, but without a practical constructive idea to offer...

Why, thanks!

[patman post]

It wasn't Tory voters that decided to over-react to a virus (they still are) stopping people from going to work, ruining jobs in hospitality, spreading a blanket of fear through the country. Nor was it the Tory voter who threw money like water at stupid schemes, such as track and trace, eat out to help out, the furlough scheme and extra money for benefits.
If the government had held their line as per Boris in March 2020, we would have got through it by June.
The jury is out whether more people may have died. Sweden says not.

However, it is the globalist response which is a worry to any right thinking person.
Have you seen people being oppressed in Australia?
Have you seen Trudeau in Canada stopping people travelling with a jab. (It's not a vaccine).

It's too late now, we are doomed, as we move from restrictions from a virus to restrictions caused by lack of energy, caused by a ridiculous green agenda of net zero - which Tory voters did not vote for.

Manifestos. What a waste of ink.

There's so many disparate points gathered together there, it's really turned into a rag rug of an argument.

The government was elected with an overwhelming majority to run the country. In emergencies there's no time to hold referendums. And after a hesitant start at the beginning of 2020 — during which time top politicians overrode the science, ignored the available data, reversed, rethought and generally made a dog's breakfast of making decisions — the majority of the electorate went along with hand washing, social distancing, mask wearing, working from home, etc, etc, etc.   

Most of this was left to the public to choose to do and carry out. My own choice was/is — having the benefit of information from someone in the hands-on front line of the NHS — to avoid those who choose to ignore the health recommendations. 

And during this time there remain many crucial actions to taken. By the time 1000 days have passed we, the electorate, will have a chance to vote. We can agree their agendas. We can heckle candidates through all the media. We can even stand ourselves if we can find support and feel that strongly. But in the end, many will vote for the party the feel will accommodate, or is already a home to, their ideas.

Apologies for being personal, but I regard you as a Jeremiah doom merchant, but without a practical constructive idea to offer...

[T00ts]

It wasn't Tory voters that decided to over-react to a virus (they still are) stopping people from going to work, ruining jobs in hospitality, spreading a blanket of fear through the country. Nor was it the Tory voter who threw money like water at stupid schemes, such as track and trace, eat out to help out, the furlough scheme and extra money for benefits.
If the government had held their line as per Boris in March 2020, we would have got through it by June.
The jury is out whether more people may have died. Sweden says not.

However, it is the globalist response which is a worry to any right thinking person.
Have you seen people being oppressed in Australia?
Have you seen Trudeau in Canada stopping people travelling with a jab. (It's not a vaccine).

It's too late now, we are doomed, as we move from restrictions from a virus to restrictions caused by lack of energy, caused by a ridiculous green agenda of net zero - which Tory voters did not vote for.

Manifestos. What a waste of ink.

People do all sorts of things when panicked into it. Even governments. No-one had a crystal ball only the 'experiences/advice' from other nations and largely WHO. Sense will return as long as everyone keeps their nerve. It is lemmings who have a tendency to panic and follow over a cliff edge and although we are showing lemming tendencies at present it will pass. I can see that there is a cry for something different but that something different has to be a reasoned decision taken in a time of quiet and calm. They say marry in haste etc - I feel politics is the same.

[Nick]

Have you seen people being oppressed in Australia?

YEP!!

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/18/australia/australia-lockdown-protest-intl/index.html