Race or Armageddon?

[Good old]

That's what a truss was designed for

I'm not normally fussy, but I don't want her support.

[Barry]

That's what a truss was designed for

hilarious

[cromwell]

Truss is the worry for me.

I guess she must perform far better in cabinet and departmental meetings than like one of Baron's blondes in public.

But I do not understand how she has that amount of support...

That's what a truss was designed for 

[Sheepy]

I wouldn't be thinking this time you can gather up the populists and turn us all into closet Conservatives, by telling us what you think we want to hear while you carry on with business as usual, that really didn't pan out well calling us the plebs, like the old plebs just the new plebs, very naughty. Hardly a voter left in sight, just like I said. The Westminster party would struggle to find a million members between the lot of you.
We might take exception at some of your members tones and attitudes again.

[T00ts]

All the party know that Sunak is responsible for the cost of living crisis after printing money like there was no tomorrow.
Throwing money at a furlough scheme whilst the people went and got different jobs AND claimed the furlough cash. Talk about scatter gun.
The throwing billions at test and trace which at £22 billion, and the NHS million upper limit on saving lives, must have saved at least 22,000 lives, but there is no evidence of it.
The cost was 3 times the annual cost of cancer to the NHS.

Then there was "eat out to help out". Nearly another Billion splashed on getting people out in the pandemic.

Then there was the rise in N.I. contributions, which most candidates want to scrap.

Rishi just sends a sticking plaster of £400 to cover a £1000 rise in energy costs. Not his fault, of course, none of this is. Well, whose fault is it then?

Then last year, in December he registered his campaign website, keeping his long knife hidden until June to depose Boris and take the crown.
I really hope he does not get in.

I'm with you 100%. I can't vote with him as leader. I am getting really annoyed with his supporters who keep shouting that he is the only one to beat Starmer. It's rubbish. I am hopeful that it will be hare and tortoise and although I am really not keen by all accounts Truss has been doing a reasonable job for several years. 2 women in the final 2? Not perfect but the best of a really poor job in my view. I can't help but feel that Conservatives are due a spell in opposition.

[Barry]

All the party know that Sunak is responsible for the cost of living crisis after printing money like there was no tomorrow.
Throwing money at a furlough scheme whilst the people went and got different jobs AND claimed the furlough cash. Talk about scatter gun.
The throwing billions at test and trace which at £22 billion, and the NHS million upper limit on saving lives, must have saved at least 22,000 lives, but there is no evidence of it.
The cost was 3 times the annual cost of cancer to the NHS.

Then there was "eat out to help out". Nearly another Billion splashed on getting people out in the pandemic.

Then there was the rise in N.I. contributions, which most candidates want to scrap.

Rishi just sends a sticking plaster of £400 to cover a £1000 rise in energy costs. Not his fault, of course, none of this is. Well, whose fault is it then?

Then last year, in December he registered his campaign website, keeping his long knife hidden until June to depose Boris and take the crown.
I really hope he does not get in.

[T00ts]

It is a shame that Jacob Rees Mogg isn't running. Still, I don't get the feeling that Sunak will last that long, so maybe next time?

As far as I am aware Jacob has never had ambitions to lead the party. I think he might have thrown his hat in but only if Truss hadn't. One thing for sure he won't tolerate Sunak.

[Borchester]

I headed this thread Race or Armageddon in a fairly light-hearted way but in a matter of a few days the MPs are at each other's throats with insults and recriminations flying all around the Westminster corridors. More than once I have heard assertions that the Party will come together behind whoever is declared leader. On present indications why do I doubt that? 

Once again we won't get a cabinet of the best but those supporters of the new leader. Talent will be relegated to the back benches and dark arts will once again rule the roost. If a woman wins they won't rest, and if the snake wins the electorate won't rest. We might be in for an even rougher ride than the one we have been on since the referendum.

It is a shame that Jacob Rees Mogg isn't running. Still, I don't get the feeling that Sunak will last that long, so maybe next time?

[T00ts]

I headed this thread Race or Armageddon in a fairly light-hearted way but in a matter of a few days the MPs are at each other's throats with insults and recriminations flying all around the Westminster corridors. More than once I have heard assertions that the Party will come together behind whoever is declared leader. On present indications why do I doubt that?  

Once again we won't get a cabinet of the best but those supporters of the new leader. Talent will be relegated to the back benches and dark arts will once again rule the roost. If a woman wins they won't rest, and if the snake wins the electorate won't rest. We might be in for an even rougher ride than the one we have been on since the referendum.

[Sheepy]

Well they dont get off scot free do they ?  Some Councils miss managing what money they do have has been borderline criminal .

But yes the tories can say they are cutting taxes as much as they like when we all know we will still be paying (more) one way or another .

I would chill out a bit put your feet up, the Westminster party have realised without the populist vote they are all toast, I can hear them mulling it over from here.

[Good old]

With all the tax cuts being promised by the leadership candidates, there's a risk that national taxes will be cut by central government with local government being left to cover the shortfall by increasing council tax.

Always been the case, deflects the burden nicely. Local councils have no choice than to tax. If the government cuts additional support. Then it's more local tax,,or more cuts to local services. It's also a neat way to deflect blame for local problems on opposition run councils, in particular in poorer boroughs,.

[Streetwalker]

That is an obvious danger, with more of the tax burden in effect being moved to the least progressive tax of all which impacts most heavily on the poor.

And of course they can do that knowing that the sheeple will blame local councils.

Well they dont get off scot free do they ?  Some Councils miss managing what money they do have has been borderline criminal .

But yes the tories can say they are cutting taxes as much as they like when we all know we will still be paying (more) one way or another .

[srb7677]

With all the tax cuts being promised by the leadership candidates, there's a risk that national taxes will be cut by central government with local government being left to cover the shortfall by increasing council tax.

That is an obvious danger, with more of the tax burden in effect being moved to the least progressive tax of all which impacts most heavily on the poor.

And of course they can do that knowing that the sheeple will blame local councils.

[HDQQ]

I have a real problem with high taxes to fund whatever central governments decide needs the funds. I don't see how some chap in Whitehall can see what is needed locally. I would rather it was given to the local councils to spend where it is needed in their parish. The GPs are a problem since Blair decided to give them an offer that they could hardly refuse which involved a massive rise for fewer hours. Plus there is a whole swathe of them who are fast approaching retirement age and provision has not been made early enough to cover the deficit. There are still far too many potential doctors who miss out on education places. We have got to make the adjustment from where we were covered for the more menial jobs by EU cheaper labour who although they did not always have good well paid jobs were so much better off than at home that they didn't care. The whole basis of our economy needs a careful look and a decent plan that we can all see.
I agree in principal that we should look to being a better paid economy but I think this is impossible to do quickly (as the Unions want) while we have some who won't do those jobs that the EU workers did. There is something wrong in our education system that gives the impression that some jobs are somehow inferior, but having said that every man is worthy of his hire.  I don't pretend to have the answers just offering some thoughts.

With all the tax cuts being promised by the leadership candidates, there's a risk that national taxes will be cut by central government with local government being left to cover the shortfall by increasing council tax.

[srb7677]

I have a real problem with high taxes to fund whatever central governments decide needs the funds. I don't see how some chap in Whitehall can see what is needed locally. I would rather it was given to the local councils to spend where it is needed in their parish. The GPs are a problem since Blair decided to give them an offer that they could hardly refuse which involved a massive rise for fewer hours. Plus there is a whole swathe of them who are fast approaching retirement age and provision has not been made early enough to cover the deficit. There are still far too many potential doctors who miss out on education places. We have got to make the adjustment from where we were covered for the more menial jobs by EU cheaper labour who although they did not always have good well paid jobs were so much better off than at home that they didn't care. The whole basis of our economy needs a careful look and a decent plan that we can all see.
I agree in principal that we should look to being a better paid economy but I think this is impossible to do quickly (as the Unions want) while we have some who won't do those jobs that the EU workers did. There is something wrong in our education system that gives the impression that some jobs are somehow inferior, but having said that every man is worthy of his hire.  I don't pretend to have the answers just offering some thoughts.

I agree that more funding decisions should be taken locally, too much being decided centrally. But your government greatly worsened that by halving local authority budgets.

As for the jobs that British people supposedly won't do, these are often of a seasonal nature in the middle of nowhere with very poor pay. This presents insupperable obstacles to jobseekers, very few of whom live within walking distance of such jobs. Few can afford their own transport and public transport to rural locations is wholly inadequate. If they can find somewhere temporary to live for the duration of the seasonal job, the rent is often prohibitive and housing benefit will no longer pay for the home they have temporarily left but will need to return to when the job is over.

Migrant workers do not have existing homes elsewhere in the UK they need to keep on board, and often come over in groups hiring caravans and suchlike, or sharing large rents between large numbers of people living in overcrowded conditions.

To make such jobs possible for Britons, transport to and from the nearest  substantial town needs to be laid on, or cheap accommodation provided on site. In the case of the latter, the welfare rules need to be adjusted so that the worker's permanent home is still covered by housing benefits if needed. Otherwise, for most people the obstacles to taking such work are almost insupperable. It is not really about most people being lazy.

As for our tax burden being so high in spite of many years of austerity - does this not  signal the inherent failure intrinsic to austerity? Slashing state spending actually shrinks the economy, and reduces the tax take, thereby wiping out much of the benefit of the cuts. With the economy chasing it's own tail in a downward spiral. Far better to introduce measures to grow the economy, thereby allowing tax cuts without the fools errand of swingeing expenditure cuts.