loyalists not happy with boris johnson in northern ireland

[papasmurf]

I'm never rude to you, despite you feeling the need to add to the insults of the rude.

It is you misogyny and frankly pig ignorance of subjects that is annoying.

[Baron von Lotsov]

We have to suffer your posts.

I'm never rude to you, despite you feeling the need to add to the insults of the rude.

[DeppityDawg]

I'm just glad i'm not you. You are one of the rudest people I have come across and have had nothing to say that is anyway nice or polite to me in the whole time I have had to suffer your posts.

You sound like you're about to burst into tears. For feck sake Lotsov. This isn't a drop in centre and I'm not a fecking social worker. This is a discussion forum. Offer lousy opinions, or worse, offer them on things you clearly don't understand, and other posters will shoot you down. If you can't take that, either think through what you are saying, have a more coherent argument, or don't fecking post. It's not up to me or anyone else to be "nice" to you. We aren't 5 year olds. I'd take the earlier advice and leave this argument right there if I were you, before you embarrass yourself even more. If all you want is for other people to blow sugar up your arse, you've come to the wrong place.

[papasmurf]

I'm just glad i'm not you. You are one of the rudest people I have come across and have had nothing to say that is anyway nice or polite to me in the whole time I have had to suffer your posts.

We have to suffer your posts.

[Baron von Lotsov]

You haven't got the first idea about my "problems" Lotsov, because I very much doubt you've ever been outside your middle class comfort zone in your life, let alone ever been to Northern Ireland. It's difficult to imagine any poster embarrassing himself with his complete lack of knowledge on a subject as you have done in this thread. You can't even properly identify who you are talking about, so what chance is there of you ever understanding the issues you cheerfully offer these simplistic solutions for.



I call you an idiot because that is exactly what you are, and you go on to prove it over and over again. From barely concealed misogyny, to mistaking red hand loyalists for the democratic unionist party, to whimsy white supremacist musings about Rhodesia, your mind appears to be stuck in some 19th century fantasy world in which you are the main character.



It's you that's made yourself a figure of fun on here, Lotsov, no one else. You offer simplistic, indulgent, often offensive views, while displaying virtually zero actual knowledge of the subject. You have the emotional maturity of a teenager and about as much insight to the real world outside as the Telly Tubbies. Its actually painful to watch someone so utterly unaware of how pitifully they come across.

I'm just glad i'm not you. You are one of the rudest people I have come across and have had nothing to say that is anyway nice or polite to me in the whole time I have had to suffer your posts.

[DeppityDawg]

Sorry, I'm half asleep today. UDP:  User Datagram Protocol



Damn acronyms!



Your problems are not my fault so please don't complain if I offer an opinion. You have to treat other countries fairly if you want to get anywhere as a country. We are trying to do deals all over the world, so if we stitch one up it will not look good. You problems do not feature in the decision one bit.

You haven't got the first idea about my "problems" Lotsov, because I very much doubt you've ever been outside your middle class comfort zone in your life, let alone ever been to Northern Ireland. It's difficult to imagine any poster embarrassing himself with his complete lack of knowledge on a subject as you have done in this thread. You can't even properly identify who you are talking about, so what chance is there of you ever understanding the issues you cheerfully offer these simplistic solutions for.



I call you an idiot because that is exactly what you are, and you go on to prove it over and over again. From barely concealed misogyny, to mistaking red hand loyalists for the democratic unionist party, to whimsy white supremacist musings about Rhodesia, your mind appears to be stuck in some 19th century fantasy world in which you are the main character.



It's you that's made yourself a figure of fun on here, Lotsov, no one else. You offer simplistic, indulgent, often offensive views, while displaying virtually zero actual knowledge of the subject. You have the emotional maturity of a teenager and about as much insight to the real world outside as the Telly Tubbies. Its actually painful to watch someone so utterly unaware of how pitifully they come across.

[Baron von Lotsov]

There is no such party as the UDP anymore. If by UDP you mean the DUP then at least get their name right. As for the rest of it, I'm not "stitching" anyone up. I've done my share for Northern Ireland, and I've no interest in keeping the DUP or anyone else "happy". Already lost enough of my fecking life over it. I didn't vote to leave the EU either, so take it up with those that did as to what the solution is. Now I suggest this conversation is at an end.

Sorry, I'm half asleep today. UDP:  User Datagram Protocol



Damn acronyms!



Your problems are not my fault so please don't complain if I offer an opinion. You have to treat other countries fairly if you want to get anywhere as a country. We are trying to do deals all over the world, so if we stitch one up it will not look good. You problems do not feature in the decision one bit.

[DeppityDawg]

You only attack selected whimsical opinions though. There are many on here, some can be funny.



Besides my thinking on this was serous. I would never recognise the IRA as a legitimate political party, but that is what has happened. The UDP backed the party which was trying to get us out of the EU. Their voting has been crucial to the success of the whole mission, and now we might have to have some sort of border, which we understand they would be inconvenienced by. The honourable thing to do is to do a deal and say we offer you something to compensate. That would be a small price to pay for the UDP to be smiling again, which is what we would like. What we do not want is Ireland to become a separate country altogether and spit completely from Britain and so our interests and the UDP's are aligned. In short the view is, don't stitch those who helped you in the past just because you can. That would create bad feelings which we can well do without. Instead we should talk to the UDP about economic matters and how we together can help their economy and ours at the same time. Money talks bullshit walks. We need to keep these fellows on our side so we are stronger as a united force against people like the IRA. That's how you make the UDP happy.

There is no such party as the UDP anymore. If by UDP you mean the DUP then at least get their name right. As for the rest of it, I'm not "stitching" anyone up. I've done my share for Northern Ireland, and I've no interest in keeping the DUP or anyone else "happy". Already lost enough of my fecking life over it. I didn't vote to leave the EU either, so take it up with those that did as to what the solution is. Now I suggest this conversation is at an end.

[Baron von Lotsov]

As for insulting you, I'll always attack idiotic comments. If you want to post whimsical opinions about complex matters you clearly know little about, then be prepared to be challenged. If you can't take your views being challenged, then I suggest you are better off not posting on a discussion forum at all. As for what you have said, you insult tens of thousands of Scottish, Irish and Welsh servicemen who served over there, many of whom never came home.

You only attack selected whimsical opinions though. There are many on here, some can be funny.



Besides my thinking on this was serous. I would never recognise the IRA as a legitimate political party, but that is what has happened. The UDP backed the party which was trying to get us out of the EU. Their voting has been crucial to the success of the whole mission, and now we might have to have some sort of border, which we understand they would be inconvenienced by. The honourable thing to do is to do a deal and say we offer you something to compensate. That would be a small price to pay for the UDP to be smiling again, which is what we would like. What we do not want is Ireland to become a separate country altogether and spit completely from Britain and so our interests and the UDP's are aligned. In short the view is, don't stitch those who helped you in the past just because you can. That would create bad feelings which we can well do without. Instead we should talk to the UDP about economic matters and how we together can help their economy and ours at the same time. Money talks bullshit walks. We need to keep these fellows on our side so we are stronger as a united force against people like the IRA. That's how you make the UDP happy.

[DeppityDawg]

I don't have an opinion about everything and no one is telling me either. As far as England was concerned it was the IRA killing us, not the loyalists. It would be pretty stupid to call themselves loyalists otherwise.



Tell me though, why do you like to insult me so much? Why be so rude and attack the person rather than the argument?

And therein you show your utter ignorance and cluelessness yet again. "England" was not fighting the "IRA", the United Kingdom was involved in 38 years of urban warfare and public disorder on a large scale in a part of the United Kingdom. That included serving English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish and Commonwealth members of the British Armed forces, as well as (often reluctant) assistance from the ROI. "Loyalism" is a particular brand of militant right wing nationalism closely associated with Paramilitaries and die-hards who would go back to the 19th century if they could (which would probably suit you). While "Unionism" is a more tolerant and liberal outlook on membership of the UK, focused more on both political solutions to problems and closer links with both ROI and Irish Nationalists, as opposed to Republicans, like Sinn Fein and the Provisional IRA.



As for insulting you, I'll always attack idiotic comments. If you want to post whimsical opinions about complex matters you clearly know little about, then be prepared to be challenged. If you can't take your views being challenged, then I suggest you are better off not posting on a discussion forum at all. As for what you have said, you insult tens of thousands of Scottish, Irish and Welsh servicemen who served over there, many of whom never came home.

[Thomas]

I can't. It's way to "toxic"

 You  , sir ,  have little idea of the very real, very searing physical pain you  inflict through the imperfect rendition of the work of a master. It is foul of you to leave us suspended in this way.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Do tell baron , i do so love your fantastic jokes about random tottie .

I can't. It's way to "toxic"

[Thomas]

No but I invented a killer of a sexist joke about fracker protestors. Shame you can't hear it, but I do like to share in lands where people still appreciate jokes.

Do tell baron , i do so love your fantastic jokes about random tottie .

[Baron von Lotsov]

Hi baron . Your readers are sitting on the edge of their armchairs waiting to hear how lunch went to day with countess Puchowska. Such tales  , if  you  would share ,  with our company , would be absolutely delightfull. :hattip

No but I invented a killer of a sexist joke about fracker protestors. Shame you can't hear it, but I do like to share in lands where people still appreciate jokes.

[DeppityDawg]

Indeed, and there may be further issues down the road for England as a result of pursuing a form of Brexit that has more or less ignored Scotland's view entirely.  Brexit has been pursued as a thoroughly Anglocentric process, stymied only by the logical realities of addressing the Northern Ireland matter.  So what we have is a government touting a very Hard Brexit (touting being the key term there) which involves seemingly profound divergence from the EU regulatory sphere, against the wishes of Scotland which probably at the very least might have had reasonable expectation of a more collaborative approach with the EU.  



Ultimately, if Scotland leaves the UK then it seems inevitable they will move to join the EU as quickly as feasible. As much as I am sure the Scots would constructively seek to preserve as closely as possible the high level of trade across the border with England, the reality is that (if they do join the EU) there would be two different regulatory systems on Great Britain and ...of course...a border with physical infrastructure. Now I don't think that physical infrastructure will necessarily be the same politically sensitive no-no that it is on the island of Ireland, but it's still an extra cost and an extra complication.  Borders, even on small islands, bring complexities and challenges.  



For what's left of the UK, it would bring the challenge of dealing with two land borders with the EU (generously assuming that NI won't have left by this stage) as well as the EU regulatory sphere now being operational in the northern portion of Great Britain — and England would be left either continuing to accept the complexities of divergence, or finding ways to align around them.  These are hardly unsurpassable objects for England, but they will add a whole new layer of complexity and difficulty in an era where the UK's focus needs to be almost exclusively fixated on recalibrating its links outside of these islands.



Ignoring Scotland might prove to have been a much more costly stance than even those who anticipated the break-up of the UK might have envisaged.

I don't see anything to disagree with there, Conchur. But it seems so many Brexiters have not woken up to any of this yet, and the difficulties that squaring a dozen widely separated and conflicting circles will involve. Not to mention the messy divorces themselves. The main comment among those that know the Union is on borrowed time is "well, good riddance". I'm sure that in the end solutions will be found, because they'll have to be. No, the sky won't fall on our heads, but some real complex difficulties lie ahead now. A United Ireland, an Independent Scotland, both as EU members, trading on more complex terms with a separated "UK" that now consists of England and Wales does not seem that far off somehow.



Once the EU referendum result was known, there was no going back, despite all the remainers and their second referendum cries. No government could realistically ignore the result? If the price of respecting Scotlands wishes was to stick two fingers up to the majority vote (which in England and Wales was to leave), then who would be willing to pay that? It was an impossible situation from which the UK could never realistically emerge with everyone happy. Perhaps the biggest "mistake" was having a referendum in the first place, but how long before the pressure on successive governments by the leave camp to hold one would have resulted in capitulation anyway?



Thomas and I had this discussion years ago, before the referendum, and I said then I believed that Independence was inevitable. The only thing Brexit has changed is the time frame. He has always been consistent about it, and he is right. We all want different things. We can't all have what we want, and remain a "United" Kingdom at the same time.