Raab has resigned

[papasmurf]

This is interesting:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65358258

5 hours ago
Dominic Raab dismissed repeated warnings about his behaviour, a retired senior civil servant who worked with him in the Foreign Office has said.

Lord McDonald described his former boss as a "tough taskmaster" whose methods did not help him achieve his aims.
He told the BBC he raised this with Mr Raab more than once but he "disputed" it and was unwilling to listen.
The former deputy PM, who resigned on Friday after a bullying inquiry, apologised if he upset anyone.
The inquiry found he was "intimidating" and "aggressive" towards officials, but Mr Raab said his behaviour was not bullying, and that almost all of the complaints against him were dismissed.
It looked at eight formal complaints about Mr Raab's behaviour during his previous stints as justice secretary, foreign secretary and Brexit secretary.
Senior lawyer Adam Tolley KC, who led the inquiry, concluded Mr Raab's conduct involved "an abuse or misuse of power", and that he "acted in a manner which was intimidating" and "persistently aggressive" towards officials.
Mr Tolley said he found a description of bullying had been met when Mr Raab was foreign secretary and justice secretary.
But, in relation to complaints from his time as justice secretary, Mr Tolley concluded Mr Raab "did not intend by the conduct described to upset or humiliate", nor did he "target anyone for a specific type of treatment".

[Borchester]

Water off a ducks back for most people Probably the most serious of catagories and one I have been a victim of myself . I did end up marrying her though so it turned out OK in the end

Bliss it was in that dawn to be alive

But to be young was very heaven.

[papasmurf]

 Water off a ducks back for most people 

That is the point it is NOT water of of a ducks back when it is sustained over time. Civil servants are in a catch 22 when trying to sort the problem out. 

[Streetwalker]

Putting the fear of God into people IS bullying.

Well its not realy is it . Its keeping people on their toes and in some cases needed or the workforce would do as they please 

Bullying behaviour can be:

• Physical – pushing, poking, kicking, hitting, biting, pinching etc.

I would agree with that  , I dont think Rabb has this on his rap sheet  though 

• Verbal  - name calling, sarcasm, spreading rumours, threats, teasing, belittling.
• Emotional – isolating others, tormenting, hiding books, threatening gestures,  ridicule, humiliation, intimidating, excluding, manipulation and coercion

Sticks and stones ? Water off a ducks back for most people 

• Sexual – unwanted physical contact, inappropriate touching, abusive comments, homophobic abuse, exposure to inappropriate films etc.

Probably the most serious of catagories and one I have been a victim of myself . I did end up marrying her though so it turned out OK in the end 

• Online /cyber – posting on social media, sharing photos, sending nasty text messages, social exclusion

Your in control of that , delete account ,block posters ect 

[papasmurf]

I guess not everyone has the same violent tendencies as you.

What's happened to your frequent references to Rule 303 of a while ago? Has plod had a word...?

It has been updated to rule 408. The police are not interested.

[patman post]

Yes, plus on TV reality programs like the apprentice. What surprises me is why more don't get decked or offed.

I guess not everyone has the same violent tendencies as you. 

What's happened to your frequent references to Rule 303 of a while ago? Has plod had a word...?

[patman post]

A short hand typist ?

Jesus Christ Pat, when the hell was that?

And the other occasion, did that involve King John pulling the teeth out of Jewish bankers?

And back in the day when I was involved in politics, if someone offended you the usual approach was to invite them outside where you would settle it on the stones.

We appear to be in the age of the Jessification of Politics

Yep — neither a Secretary nor a PA, but a woman in her early 20's employed to follow her technical bosses around (three, I remember) witnessing and noting any comment, event and observation which she compiled and entered into the system daily. Her recording technologies were shorthand and voice recording...

[Nick]

Unfortunately for the boss, he was doing a job they could not get anyone else to do. (Except me and I was working double shifts as it was due to the lack of skilled workers even back in the 1980s.)

Don't care, what job was it?

[papasmurf]

If that was me they'd have been sacked on the spot.

Unfortunately for the boss, he was doing a job they could not get anyone else to do. (Except me and I was working double shifts as it was due to the lack of skilled workers even back in the 1980s.)

[Unlucky4Sum]

If that was me they'd have been sacked on the spot.

Yep, gross misconduct

[Unlucky4Sum]

My experience from Defence Procurement is the exact opposite. Hence my opinions. Sadly i was not allowed to use the solution the Saudi's did.

FFS

Your reference to Saudi is deliberately offensive and makes you look , you also seem to know little about the difference between a minister's private office staff that regularly work long and antisocial hours and erks in the MoD.

Your view appears to be that civil servants are there to serve your niche political views but the fact is they are there to serve the Crown which in practice means both the appointed Secretaries of State AND the body of legislation the Crowns various have signed off over the centuries.  

When the former want to do something contrary to that legislation their duty is to say 'no'.   When the former demands levels of effort from staff that are way way beyond their already extended hours, they have a right to say no.  When the former effectively threatens staff in meetings he has to be held to account.

Raab's misfortune is he got caught with convincing evidence especially of humilating and threatening officials in front of others and of being monumentally stupid when the perm secs raised concerns with him.  He wasn't the first minister to be recklessly intimidating of staff on a fraction of his salary but he got caught.  And rightly he is off the front bench.  

Adam Tolley says no one should draw conclusions without reading his whole report.  I did, did you?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1152026/2023.04.20_Investigation_Report_to_the_Prime_Minister.pdf

[Nick]

I knew one like that, the boss was coming out with the usual flannel during pay and conditions negotiations, and the scary employee reached across desk, lifted the boss out of his chair, so they were very close face to face, and said very quietly to the boss, "Now we are going to discuss this sensibly, aren't we?" and put the boss back in his chair. Negotiations went smoothly after that.

If that was me they'd have been sacked on the spot. 

[papasmurf]

 I've also come across intimidating employees that scare the boss so much that they get away with things other employees wouldn't.

I knew one like that, the boss was coming out with the usual flannel during pay and conditions negotiations, and the scary employee reached across desk, lifted the boss out of his chair, so they were very close face to face, and said very quietly to the boss, "Now we are going to discuss this sensibly, aren't we?" and put the boss back in his chair. Negotiations went smoothly after that.

[HDQQ]

I've seen bullying both ways in the workplace. Subtle forms of bullying. A boss takes a dislike to one employee, for some reason. So boss starts micro-managing and over-supervising employee in a hostile manner. I've also come across intimidating employees that scare the boss so much that they get away with things other employees wouldn't.

[Nick]

Pappy probably enjoys it, although as you say, he has never studied the Foundation Series

Careful, you'll be accused of bullying one of the Crays of Cornwall.