Like a rabbit in the headlights

[Unlucky4Sum]

Well your are indeed the exception,I could give many examples of avid fans never been near the place.

One of those many that sticks in my mind is on holiday onthe south coast  a lady behind the counter in a shop said "oh you're from the north" I replied I was and said Manchester to which she said oh my husband is a lifelong Man Utd fan so on his fiftieth birthday I arranged a trip to Manchester and old Trafford because he's never been before but it was hard to find to which I replied that's because it's not in Manchester

I know some taxi drivers enjoy dropping the Man U football tourists who ask to go to the famous old Trafford dropping them off at the cricket ground .

Anyway as I say you're the exception but many are clueless and the so called history clubs and those who believe football only started
in the 1990's whereas there are indeed clubs like Bolton Blackpool and others who had a history which is forgotten.

There is all that how the premiership was formed the small section of so called big clubs that tried to keep any others out so you'd never see another Derby county or Notts forest.

The media promote all that and beatify clubs like Man Utd where their history is less wonderful than that portrayed and you mention some of the books you've read,have you read this a.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Babes-Manchester-Forgotten-Victims/dp/0007208073
Written by a United fan and shows the cynicism in how Munich is remembered for commercial reasons by that club.

Thanks for that, just ordered a copy.

I was too young to be aware of Munich at the time but I believe it (or rather the recovery to that 1958 Cup Final) played a part in my brother becoming a United supporter.  Years ago I read the story of Duncan Edwards which it's hard to read and not be upset, such a talent lost and such a fight for life he ultimately lost.  I always feel for the pilot (Thain) who the malicious German authorities falsely blamed and whose life was ruined and IMHO shortened.

FWIW I'm not as cynical over the club and the Munich memories, when you go to the ground they've commemorated it very well and with many alive that remember the Busby Babes I believe they will continue to do so in the new stadium.  There have actually been worse football air tragedies - but I digress. 

[Streetwalker]

1877 and one of the founders of the league.

1863 and one of the founders of the FA cup and the only one of those clubs still playing making us the oldest club in the world , Yay !

[papasmurf]

Any news on Raynor's £65K private photographer?

It is not a personal photographer the right wing press does not like to let truth get in the way of a good story.
Many government departments employ official photographers to share the work of the department and ministers with the public. Those photographers are not allowed at the Labour party conference because that is political not departmental.

[Nick]

Funnily enough, I was born in Northamptonshire and think football is a load of cobblers.

It's great watching the Labour party conference, it's similar. Cobblers.

Any news on Raynor's £65K private photographer?

[Nick]

Well your are indeed the exception,I could give many examples of avid fans never been near the place.

One of those many that sticks in my mind is on holiday onthe south coast  a lady behind the counter in a shop said "oh you're from the north" I replied I was and said Manchester to which she said oh my husband is a lifelong Man Utd fan so on his fiftieth birthday I arranged a trip to Manchester and old Trafford because he's never been before but it was hard to find to which I replied that's because it's not in Manchester

I know some taxi drivers enjoy dropping the Man U football tourists who ask to go to the famous old Trafford dropping them off at the cricket ground .

Anyway as I say you're the exception but many are clueless and the so called history clubs and those who believe football only started
in the 1990's whereas there are indeed clubs like Bolton Blackpool and others who had a history which is forgotten.

There is all that how the premiership was formed the small section of so called big clubs that tried to keep any others out so you'd never see another Derby county or Notts forest.

The media promote all that and beatify clubs like Man Utd where their history is less wonderful than that portrayed and you mention some of the books you've read,have you read this a.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Babes-Manchester-Forgotten-Victims/dp/0007208073
Written by a United fan and shows the cynicism in how Munich is remembered for commercial reasons by that club.

1877 and one of the founders of the league.

[cromwell]

No it's not.

To answer SRB:  at age seven I was cornered by some bigger lads at school asked what team I supported and told to support Tottenham Hotspur.  I said no I'd support Manchester United (because my brother did and he because his best mate did).  And being a stubborn little kid I stuck my ground.  And so it began.  I first started going to their games in their relegation season of 73-74 and if anyone thinks standing shivering on winter terraces watching them lose is 'glory hunting' they need a brain transplant. 

I've been a paid up member for yonks and I've now lost count of how many times I've seen them play at Old Trafford but that going there has probably ended now my aforementioned brother is dead and that A21 M25 M40 M6 M62 drive up and down in a day is horrible to do alone.  It's been 60 plus years of supporting them now through thin and more thin and thick and thin again and I'm not changing. 

Two great books to read that might better explain what the soulless might see as foolish loyalty:

Fever Pitch - autobiog by a lifelong Arsenal supporter from Maidenhead

Manchester United Ruined My Life - autobiog by a lifelong Man City supporter (who amusingly later wrote Man City Ruined My Life)


I don't know how Starmer came to support Arsenal but I do know it goes back many many years - well before he became DPP.  Good on him for being old school working class British.

Well your are indeed the exception,I could give many examples of avid fans never been near the place.

One of those many that sticks in my mind is on holiday onthe south coast  a lady behind the counter in a shop said "oh you're from the north" I replied I was and said Manchester to which she said oh my husband is a lifelong Man Utd fan so on his fiftieth birthday I arranged a trip to Manchester and old Trafford because he's never been before but it was hard to find to which I replied that's because it's not in Manchester 

I know some taxi drivers enjoy dropping the Man U football tourists who ask to go to the famous old Trafford dropping them off at the cricket ground .

Anyway as I say you're the exception but many are clueless and the so called history clubs and those who believe football only started
in the 1990's whereas there are indeed clubs like Bolton Blackpool and others who had a history which is forgotten.

There is all that how the premiership was formed the small section of so called big clubs that tried to keep any others out so you'd never see another Derby county or Notts forest.

The media promote all that and beatify clubs like Man Utd where their history is less wonderful than that portrayed and you mention some of the books you've read,have you read this a.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Babes-Manchester-Forgotten-Victims/dp/0007208073
Written by a United fan and shows the cynicism in how Munich is remembered for commercial reasons by that club.

[Barry]

Funnily enough, I was born in Northamptonshire and think football is a load of cobblers.

It's great watching the Labour party conference, it's similar. Cobblers.

[Nick]

No it's not.

To answer SRB:  at age seven I was cornered by some bigger lads at school asked what team I supported and told to support Tottenham Hotspur.  I said no I'd support Manchester United (because my brother did and he because his best mate did).  And being a stubborn little kid I stuck my ground.  And so it began.  I first started going to their games in their relegation season of 73-74 and if anyone thinks standing shivering on winter terraces watching them lose is 'glory hunting' they need a brain transplant. 

I've been a paid up member for yonks and I've now lost count of how many times I've seen them play at Old Trafford but that going there has probably ended now my aforementioned brother is dead and that A21 M25 M40 M6 M62 drive up and down in a day is horrible to do alone.  It's been 60 plus years of supporting them now through thin and more thin and thick and thin again and I'm not changing. 

Two great books to read that might better explain what the soulless might see as foolish loyalty:

Fever Pitch - autobiog by a lifelong Arsenal supporter from Maidenhead

Manchester United Ruined My Life - autobiog by a lifelong Man City supporter (who amusingly later wrote Man City Ruined My Life)


I don't know how Starmer came to support Arsenal but I do know it goes back many many years - well before he became DPP.  Good on him for being old school working class British.

You can wax lyrical all you want, there is only one reason why someone supports a team 100's of miles away, and that because at some point they were doing well. Maybe not you or your brother, but somewhere in your influence there is a glory hunter FACT.
I was born in Bolton and support The Wanderers, that's the way it is.

[Unlucky4Sum]

You will remember this classic then
https://youtu.be/DcN2o7gHspY?s

No years of therapy (mainly alcoholic?) have erased that.  Well HAD erased that.  Thanks (not)

But actually it wasn't 1973, it was late 72 and IIRC was what led to Tommy Docherty replacing the nice but useless Frank O'Farrell as manager.  Docherty saved the club even if he couldn't prevent the relegation the next season.

[Streetwalker]

No it's not.

To answer SRB:  at age seven I was cornered by some bigger lads at school asked what team I supported and told to support Tottenham Hotspur.  I said no I'd support Manchester United (because my brother did and he because his best mate did).  And being a stubborn little kid I stuck my ground.  And so it began.  I first started going to their games in their relegation season of 73-74 and if anyone thinks standing shivering on winter terraces watching them lose is 'glory hunting' they need a brain transplant. 

You will remember this classic then
https://youtu.be/DcN2o7gHspY?s

[Unlucky4Sum]

It's called glory hunting, hence my comment about the M6 being jammed with them heading north.

No it's not.

To answer SRB:  at age seven I was cornered by some bigger lads at school asked what team I supported and told to support Tottenham Hotspur.  I said no I'd support Manchester United (because my brother did and he because his best mate did).  And being a stubborn little kid I stuck my ground.  And so it began.  I first started going to their games in their relegation season of 73-74 and if anyone thinks standing shivering on winter terraces watching them lose is 'glory hunting' they need a brain transplant. 

I've been a paid up member for yonks and I've now lost count of how many times I've seen them play at Old Trafford but that going there has probably ended now my aforementioned brother is dead and that A21 M25 M40 M6 M62 drive up and down in a day is horrible to do alone.  It's been 60 plus years of supporting them now through thin and more thin and thick and thin again and I'm not changing. 

Two great books to read that might better explain what the soulless might see as foolish loyalty:

Fever Pitch - autobiog by a lifelong Arsenal supporter from Maidenhead

Manchester United Ruined My Life - autobiog by a lifelong Man City supporter (who amusingly later wrote Man City Ruined My Life)


I don't know how Starmer came to support Arsenal but I do know it goes back many many years - well before he became DPP.  Good on him for being old school working class British.

[Nick]

I am no fan of Starmer, but with his massive majority his party is pretty much untouchable until the next election. And his own MPs are not going to oust him that quickly. Also, majority opinion supports our assistance to  Ukraine and believes in the reality of anthropogenic climate change and the need to address it. The problem with the winter fuel payment withdrawals is that many of those losing out are still pretty poor. Struggling workers do not want their taxes wasted on handouts to those clearly wealthy enough not to need them. But too many who are not well off are losing them too. A mistake which if not corrected could do them damage.

I think Starmer is safe for two years at the very least though, and is there until the next election at least unless his own party replaces him. And even if they do, it will only be with some other clone of his in policy terms. So for better or for worse we are stuck with them until the next general election which is likely to be 5 years away and will only come sooner if he thinks he can win it by cutting and running early.

This is the hard reality. Anything else is just wishful thinking.

If Starmer gets the mood of the people wrong for much longer, the people in the Labour MP's constituency will start to get a bit twitchy. I'm in agreement that he might just get 2 years.

[Nick]

As someone who never really got all that into the whole football scene, it never seemed to cease looking ridiculous to me that Man United seemed to have as many fans in Truro and Tunbridge Wells as it did in pigging Manchester.  In fact, nearly every football fan I know locally might well support and sometimes go and see the local team, Plymouth Argyle, but all of them without exception place their primary allegiance in some premiership club, in the vast majority of cases one hailing from some locale none of them have ever come from or lived in, or even visited in passing

They might as well be supporting Timbuktu United, Kathmandu City, or Riyadh Rovers for all the sense it makes to me,

Perhaps a football fan can tell me how this makes sense because I just don't get it.

It's called glory hunting, hence my comment about the M6 being jammed with them heading north.

[srb7677]

Football is tribal and many of the tribe that follows yoonited have no connection to the city of Manchester,mind you the old toilet isn't in Manchester either is it?

As someone who never really got all that into the whole football scene, it never seemed to cease looking ridiculous to me that Man United seemed to have as many fans in Truro and Tunbridge Wells as it did in pigging Manchester.  In fact, nearly every football fan I know locally might well support and sometimes go and see the local team, Plymouth Argyle, but all of them without exception place their primary allegiance in some premiership club, in the vast majority of cases one hailing from some locale none of them have ever come from or lived in, or even visited in passing

They might as well be supporting Timbuktu United, Kathmandu City, or Riyadh Rovers for all the sense it makes to me,

Perhaps a football fan can tell me how this makes sense because I just don't get it.

[srb7677]

The electorate are not fooled and won't be changing the subject to football teams. The allocation of funds to foreign climate change projects and foreign wars whilst ignoring the impact assessment stating 4,000 old people could die as a result of this policy will not be forgotten.

This government needs to get a grip or they could quickly implode. I'll make a prediction, Starmer will face a leadership challenge before he's had a year as PM. The sharks are already circling.

I am no fan of Starmer, but with his massive majority his party is pretty much untouchable until the next election. And his own MPs are not going to oust him that quickly. Also, majority opinion supports our assistance to  Ukraine and believes in the reality of anthropogenic climate change and the need to address it. The problem with the winter fuel payment withdrawals is that many of those losing out are still pretty poor. Struggling workers do not want their taxes wasted on handouts to those clearly wealthy enough not to need them. But too many who are not well off are losing them too. A mistake which if not corrected could do them damage.

I think Starmer is safe for two years at the very least though, and is there until the next election at least unless his own party replaces him. And even if they do, it will only be with some other clone of his in policy terms. So for better or for worse we are stuck with them until the next general election which is likely to be 5 years away and will only come sooner if he thinks he can win it by cutting and running early.

This is the hard reality. Anything else is just wishful thinking.