Which way should we go - China or USA?

[patman post]

You mean that all these newfangled digital things don't impact our health??? If so, you're destroying a significant proportion of internet forum posts...

[Javert]

Possibly due to 5G being suspected of transmitting Covid-19...

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/4/21207927/5g-towers-burning-uk-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-link">https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/4/21207 ... heory-link">https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/4/21207927/5g-towers-burning-uk-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-link

This is complete nonsense and is biologically impossible, not to mention that the virus is spreading at the same rate in many countries that don't even have any 5G infrastructure yet.

[patman post]

I've seen a report that the UK are now cancelling involvement with Huawei for 5G development.

https://creativedestructionmedia.com/news/business/2020/04/01/boris-johnson-to-pull-out-of-huawei-5g-contract-due-to-ccp-misinformation/">//https://creativedestructionmedia.com/news/business/2020/04/01/boris-johnson-to-pull-out-of-huawei-5g-contract-due-to-ccp-misinformation/

Possibly due to 5G being suspected of transmitting Covid-19...

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/4/21207927/5g-towers-burning-uk-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-link">https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/4/21207 ... heory-link">https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/4/21207927/5g-towers-burning-uk-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-link

[Barry]

I've seen a report that the UK are now cancelling involvement with Huawei for 5G development.

https://creativedestructionmedia.com/news/business/2020/04/01/boris-johnson-to-pull-out-of-huawei-5g-contract-due-to-ccp-misinformation/">//https://creativedestructionmedia.com/news/business/2020/04/01/boris-johnson-to-pull-out-of-huawei-5g-contract-due-to-ccp-misinformation/

[Baron von Lotsov]

£1.2bn of investment is expected which is 500 extra jobs, not 5000 job losses, as predicted.



https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/steelmaking-could-return-teesside-under-17631119">https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/tees ... r-17631119">https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/steelmaking-could-return-teesside-under-17631119



Previous owners were Greybull Capital.



Their track record is detailed here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greybull_Capital">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greybull_Capital

[Baron von Lotsov]

I just heard some more news on this. The Chinese don't just want to buy up British Steel but have major plans for expansion of the plants they will run, and Sunderland was mentioned as one place they plan to make a lot bigger. The other steel firms up that way are worried that they will be able to compete.



So that's kind of odd then. Left in the British hands it was going to go bust, but in Chinese hands it is going to get much bigger. The price of steel is likely to drop in Blighty as a result. This means we will have cheaper steel to build HS2.



None of this would have happened if we stayed in the EU. It looks like the government are into the free market approach. Let the firms fight it out for the best and cheapest steel and they will all improve competitiveness. This is essential for us to rebuild our manufacturing sector. You can't manufacture stuff if you raw material costs are uncompetitive. One other point is the government are replacing some green they have as a climate minister with "someone a bit more senior" This is thought to be because what we have at the moment is a fanatic, and that costs money, especially when you are a high energy user, which is what steel production is.

[Baron von Lotsov]

British Steel is now 英製鋼



Apparently they bought it for 50 million and saved 4000 jobs, except they have a plant in France and the French do not like the Chinese and say they are a security threat. You see Chinese steel is cheaper than British steel. However, British steel is of far higher quality, especially for specialist steel used in aircraft which has to be extremely strong. Perhaps combining Chinese efficiency with British know-how the French steel will not be selling so well. It will be interesting to see if the new firm will manage to turn a good profit.

[Baron von Lotsov]

I suppose you are pleased to be wrong on this occasion.

Yes it is a major break with what would normally happen, i.e. toe the line of Uncle Sam. Things are starting to make sense once again.

[Barry]

UK has just announced today that they will allow Huawei to trade in the UK. They will not be allowed near to security networks and will be limited to 35% of the market. Huawei say they are very happy because UK has taken an evedence-based approach rather than to rely on rumour. The remaining Five Eyes countries, which are America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, have all banned them and IDS is furious that we have let the side down.



So basically we have told Trump to stick it. The Chinese leadership will love us for that. You see Australia forged a closer trading relationship with China and their economy took a big boost from it. You can understand why now the Chinese are likely to be a bit miffed by their subservience to Uncle Sam on this matter. Huawei will probably return the favour and employ many British technologists. The director of the firm speaking on Radio 4 himself is a British man. They want us to join their family, and I think the experience will be excellent for us, because they will show us how to do advanced technology. The firm is a world leader. We can play catch-up after years in the technology wilderness.

Yes well where have you been since WW2? Brits and Yanks are one firm, don't you know.

I suppose you are pleased to be wrong on this occasion.

[johnofgwent]

Why can't we? Do we not have the knowledge? Why is that?

As I posted on facebook about two hours ago in answer to this very question ...



We once had the technology. We were world leaders. As recently as 1992, when I personally made £120,000 in profits in my company's pocket as part of an eight man team at a hughes aircraft subsidiary, I and my fellow team members joined the world's furthest emreaches together with a then unheard of satellite data network using Inmarsats commercial satellite platforms.



Yes by todays standards it was rubbish but by the standards of 1992 which did not have the internet outside of military, university and serious financial players, it was the first, and it was BRITISH owned and run.



And what happened?



John Major sent his tax rottweilers after me for daring to claim bed and breakfast in the clients town 120 miles from my office as a business expense, and the Chinese government poached three key freelancers to a lucrative - VERY lucrative - contract firc18 months in Shanghai.



I met one of them six months later by chance in Edgeware Rd. He'd just flown into Heathrow on Concorde...



Like I said, very lucrative.



Britain is in the shit it is because its government utterly hates innovative little guys and has for decades

[Baron von Lotsov]

UK has just announced today that they will allow Huawei to trade in the UK. They will not be allowed near to security networks and will be limited to 35% of the market. Huawei say they are very happy because UK has taken an evedence-based approach rather than to rely on rumour. The remaining Five Eyes countries, which are America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, have all banned them and IDS is furious that we have let the side down.



So basically we have told Trump to stick it. The Chinese leadership will love us for that. You see Australia forged a closer trading relationship with China and their economy took a big boost from it. You can understand why now the Chinese are likely to be a bit miffed by their subservience to Uncle Sam on this matter. Huawei will probably return the favour and employ many British technologists. The director of the firm speaking on Radio 4 himself is a British man. They want us to join their family, and I think the experience will be excellent for us, because they will show us how to do advanced technology. The firm is a world leader. We can play catch-up after years in the technology wilderness.

[Streetwalker]

Why can't we? Do we not have the knowledge? Why is that?

I don't know . We have become over reliant on others I think to the extent that we cant start from scratch but Im sure someone with more tech knowledge will be along soon to explain ??

[papasmurf]

Least worse option with Trump in office, China.

[T00ts]

No we don't have to choose one over the other  though it would of course be much simpler if we could do it ourselves  :shrg:

Why can't we? Do we not have the knowledge? Why is that?

[Streetwalker]

I think we need to do both.

If the 5G software has been checked and is clean, then go ahead with it. I believe the PM has already given the green light to Huawei and 5G in the UK.

If the USA don't like it that is tough. If our own GCHQ are happy with it, that is good enough. USA need to provide very good reason for saying no.



We make our trade deals despite USA bluster - both with the USA and allowing Huawei phones access to 5G.

We don't need to choose one over the other.

No we don't have to choose one over the other  though it would of course be much simpler if we could do it ourselves  :shrg: