Arrested for praying

[T00ts]

I have two comments to make about this.



The first being that abortion, or otherwise, is a decision concerning a woman's body - and that decision should be hers alone. AFIK, late term abortions are only ever legally performed when the mother's life is in danger - and that IMO, is as it should be. A blastocyst or embryo is not a human being, any more than an acorn is an oak tree - so early term abortion is not destroying a baby.



The second is that religion, faith, spirituality, and the belief in a God, should be a private matter. Anyone who prays aloud when not in a place of worship should be reminded of Matthew 6:5.



"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward."



Everyone enjoys the right to any beliefs their intellect can sustain, but not the right to impose those beliefs upon anyone else in any shape or form.



And to pray aloud for political reasons is even worse.

 :hattip

[Tarn]

I have two comments to make about this.



The first being that abortion, or otherwise, is a decision concerning a woman's body - and that decision should be hers alone. AFIK, late term abortions are only ever legally performed when the mother's life is in danger - and that IMO, is as it should be. A blastocyst or embryo is not a human being, any more than an acorn is an oak tree - so early term abortion is not destroying a baby.



The second is that religion, faith, spirituality, and the belief in a God, should be a private matter. Anyone who prays aloud when not in a place of worship should be reminded of Matthew 6:5.



"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward."



Everyone enjoys the right to any beliefs their intellect can sustain, but not the right to impose those beliefs upon anyone else in any shape or form.



And to pray aloud for political reasons is even worse.

[Baron von Lotsov]

At the end of the day it is the woman's choice and their circumstances a decision IMO, I don't think most women would take it lightly

Men no longer get the vote in this matter then. Too much is left upto the choice of women. Empowering women often means someone getting unauthorised power through manipulation of the empowered. That would be the family planning clinic and their progressive policies.

[Churchill]

Not necessarily. For many the real maternal feelings arrive after birth, it's sad that the risk of pregnancy is not considered earlier.

I agree not being female I don't know , its a very emotive subject I will make no more comment

[T00ts]

I suspect some may use it as birth control the callous few with little or no maternal instinct.

Not necessarily. For many the real maternal feelings arrive after birth, it's sad that the risk of pregnancy is not considered earlier.

[Churchill]

I would agree. There is talk though of it being used as a form of birth control and for some I guess they don't realise the emotional trauma that may not hit until years later. Much as we might loathe abortion we have free will and the judgement is not ours - thank goodness it's above our pay scale.

I suspect some may use it as birth control the callous few with little or no maternal instinct.

[T00ts]

At the end of the day it is the woman's choice and their circumstances a decision IMO, I don't think most women would take it lightly

I would agree. There is talk though of it being used as a form of birth control and for some I guess they don't realise the emotional trauma that may not hit until years later. Much as we might loathe abortion we have free will and the judgement is not ours - thank goodness it's above our pay scale.

[Churchill]

At the end of the day it is the woman's choice and their circumstances a decision IMO, I don't think most women would take it lightly

[Barry]

Slightly off topic, but still on the intervention to save the baby line:

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/11/18/inenglish/1574067256_699300.html">//https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/11/18/inenglish/1574067256_699300.html

A member of the Spanish far-right group Vox has been performing ultrasounds on pregnant women outside abortion clinics in Madrid. Gádor Joya, a pediatrician and a deputy in the Madrid regional assembly, says she has been providing the free service – dubbed the "Life Ambulance Project" – from a van because she believes women "don't know what they are carrying inside them" when they get pregnant.

"I and other doctors have been giving these women ultrasounds... Precisely because I have been doing this, I know what has been hidden from these women. Most of them, when they receive the information and hear the heartbeat, decide to go forward with their pregnancies," said Joya at a regional health committee meeting on November 5.

Who would criticise that?

[Churchill]

Indeed he was not arrested for praying but for doing it in an exclusion zone, for him or anyone else to stop  close these clinics down you would need to get the Government of the day and the general public to support a change in legalisation.



The fact is that if these clinics were closed down desperate women would be forced to seek out backstreet untrained people carrying out abortions in unhygienic conditions as they did years ago, which cost many their lives or leave with severe injury to the bodies.

[Ciaphas]

If he wants to make the world a better place he could do something more constructive than hanging around outside abortion clinics talking to himself.



There is an exclusion zone around the site, he breached it and got arrested for presumably refusing to leave. Pretty open and shut case. The fact that he was praying at the time is irrelevent and us just catnip for a certain type of religious person who thinks they're oppressed.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Human Rights apply to all not just some



I agree we all have the right to express ourselves and protest peacefully and long may it continue , however those who oppose Abortion some because of their Religious Faith have done so on regular basis outside this clinic , holding placards approaching women who are going to the Clinic for an abortion .



Those who object have no idea why these women have made this very difficult emotionally taxing decision something they will never forget , it could be for variety of reasons, not just because the child was not planned or wanted  or they cannot afford to look after or too lazy or stupid to not to take precautions, as an example victims of rape , or sexual abuse in the family, the birth of a child may be fatal for some women, those objecting just don't know why.

Well you do not necessarily know how much or what the individuals expressing their view know as you can put only so much on a placard. Mind you generally I'm inclined to support the view they would not know of individual cases so easily. Of course they are at liberty to inform them.

Their actions must have caused many of those women alarm and distress

There's no 'must' about it, although 'may' would be appropriate here. As I said, before though, the law allows you to express your view even though the other person may not like it.

, as I have already stated local residents also have their views , their well being and feelings also have to be taken into account as well, the Court would not have issued  the order in the first place they do not make those decisions lightly IMO.



I am not deeply religious however I do feel that it is rather hypocritical of some , we now know how about the sexual abuse of hundreds of children by members of the clergy over many many years, adulterous liaisons by members of the clergy with members of the clergy, even Catholic Priests fathering children, Nuns in the Vatican getting pregnant, Vicars being defrocked  etc.



I don't force my opinions constantly on anyone  they either agree with me or they don't, why should some think it if ok for them to force their views on because they have a Holy Book in their hand, I am right you are a sinner and wrong.



I am not anti faith at all those who believe fervently great I wish you well, I don't

Yes well we do get a lot of anti-Christian propaganda. No one stops to think the child abusers are not actually Christian, but imposters. It's like the protests over LGBT indoctrination at schools. We are seeing all the signs of a totalitarian government willing to break the law with impunity.

[Churchill]

Absolutely.  :hattip

I agree it is a waste of Police time , however they have no choice but to enforce the law it should never have gone that far a Court Order had to sught and issued.

[Churchill]

Ah but it hinges on human rights law. You have a legal right to express your view to others, no matter how objectionable the others view it as. If you do not like hearing what others think then tough cheese because that's the law, and it operates over any national law or what a national judge can decide. If you are doing this by blocking a road to a hospital so it threatens the life of emergency cases then of course they can get a court order for these problems, but they can not get one because they disagree with the views of the Christians, even if the staff get upset by them. They will simply have to grow up a bit before engaging in employment.

Human Rights apply to all not just some



I agree we all have the right to express ourselves and protest peacefully and long may it continue , however those who oppose Abortion some because of their Religious Faith have done so on regular basis outside this clinic , holding placards approaching women who are going to the Clinic for an abortion .



Those who object have no idea why these women have made this very difficult emotionally taxing decision something they will never forget , it could be for variety of reasons, not just because the child was not planned or wanted  or they cannot afford to look after or too lazy or stupid to not to take precautions, as an example victims of rape , or sexual abuse in the family, the birth of a child may be fatal for some women, those objecting just don't know why.



Their actions must have caused many of those women alarm and distress , as I have already stated local residents also have their views , their well being and feelings also have to be taken into account as well, the Court would not have issued  the order in the first place they do not make those decisions lightly IMO.



I am not deeply religious however I do feel that it is rather hypocritical of some , we now know how about the sexual abuse of hundreds of children by members of the clergy over many many years, adulterous liaisons by members of the clergy with members of the clergy, even Catholic Priests fathering children, Nuns in the Vatican getting pregnant, Vicars being defrocked  etc.



I don't force my opinions constantly on anyone  they either agree with me or they don't, why should some think it if ok for them to force their views on because they have a Holy Book in their hand, I am right you are a sinner and wrong.



I am not anti faith at all those who believe fervently great I wish you well, I don't

[Barry]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/man-praying-abortion-clinic-arrest-london-marie-stopes-ealing-a9181551.html">https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 81551.html">https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/man-praying-abortion-clinic-arrest-london-marie-stopes-ealing-a9181551.html



When there are murders, GBH etc going on London's streets and the ol bill are busying themselves with paraplegics praying outside an abortion clinic, and not even causing any kind of trouble, you know this country has gone down the pan.

Absolutely.  :hattip