BND, Der Spiegel Alleges WHO Collab'd with Xi to Delay C19 Response by 6wks

[Javert]

Well OK, let's see what you think of this then.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-china-who-bruce-aylward-1.5459615">https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavi ... -1.5459615">https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-china-who-bruce-aylward-1.5459615



This was a proper investigation.







You don't think the director's previous conduct makes any difference?



You disbelieve the allegations from the hill about changing the Chinese landing page advice not to piss off Xi?



Ok.

Even if true, these are "whataboutery" - minor alterations to one aspect of one web page are as nothing compared to the woeful response of the US and UK governments during February and early March.



I haven't claimed the WHO is perfect - just that this is deflection trying to point out minor issues whilst being guilty of much bigger failures.

[Borg Refinery]

I'm not at all saying that the WHO is perfect - the WHO operates in the real world and has many issues, not the least of which is that they are supposed to behave in a completely scientific and factual way, whilst maintaining relationships and access to the world's governments which by definition are political organisations.

Well OK, let's see what you think of this then.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-china-who-bruce-aylward-1.5459615">https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavi ... -1.5459615">https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-china-who-bruce-aylward-1.5459615



This was a proper investigation.

However these are personal attacks meant to smear the head of the WHO rather than practical and justified critic of the WHO's actions. The UK and US governments (and scientists as well who are not blameless) had sufficient warning of this pandemic to make a better response, and they failed.  The failures of the WHO, whilst not being zero,  are as nothing in comparison.

You don't think the director's previous conduct makes any difference?



You disbelieve the allegations from the hill about changing the Chinese landing page advice not to piss off Xi?



Ok.

[Javert]

Well given the fact the NYT are bitterly opposed to Trump, just why would they try to help further his agenda?



I don't disagree that Trump has done everything wrong, but that doesn't in any way negate real info about the WHO.



You have this mistaken idea that criticising the WHO automatically means you support America. That's quite absurd.

I'm not at all saying that the WHO is perfect - the WHO operates in the real world and has many issues, not the least of which is that they are supposed to behave in a completely scientific and factual way, whilst maintaining relationships and access to the world's governments which by definition are political organisations.



However these are personal attacks meant to smear the head of the WHO rather than practical and justified critic of the WHO's actions. The UK and US governments (and scientists as well who are not blameless) had sufficient warning of this pandemic to make a better response, and they failed.  The failures of the WHO, whilst not being zero,  are as nothing in comparison.

[Borg Refinery]

They are quoting rumours.  They don't even say in the stories that this happened - they just say he was "accused of" doing that.  They don't say it was true.



The newspapers a few weeks ago printed that President Trump suggested that injecting bleach into yourself might cure coronavirus - that doesn't mean the paper is asserting that it's true, they are just reporting the fact that Trump said it.



As I've said, this is on the background of a clear agenda by Trump to try to accuse any foreigner he can find, preferably foreigners who look Chinese or Asian, of being responsible for Coronavirus and causing the delay in response.  Unfortunately you don't have to go hunting for long to figure out that the information was all out there in January and it was his administration that didn't respond properly.

Well given the fact the NYT are bitterly opposed to Trump, just why would they try to help further his agenda?



I don't disagree that Trump has done everything wrong, but that doesn't in any way negate real info about the WHO.



You have this mistaken idea that criticising the WHO automatically means you support America. That's quite absurd.

[Javert]

..Are you saying the NYT and The Hill are lying about him as well as the BND and Der Spiegel?

They are quoting rumours.  They don't even say in the stories that this happened - they just say he was "accused of" doing that.  They don't say it was true.



The newspapers a few weeks ago printed that President Trump suggested that injecting bleach into yourself might cure coronavirus - that doesn't mean the paper is asserting that it's true, they are just reporting the fact that Trump said it.



As I've said, this is on the background of a clear agenda by Trump to try to accuse any foreigner he can find, preferably foreigners who look Chinese or Asian, of being responsible for Coronavirus and causing the delay in response.  Unfortunately you don't have to go hunting for long to figure out that the information was all out there in January and it was his administration that didn't respond properly.

[Borg Refinery]

If that's the best they've got then not really.



I guess it's not a good look only in the same sense that if I made up a bunch of completely fabricated personal allegations against you or anyone else, and then published them, I could then say "it's not a good look", but if the allegations are completely untrue, whilst the accuser has a very clear motive for wanting to smear that person, I would still dismiss it.

..Are you saying the NYT and The Hill are lying about him as well as the BND and Der Spiegel?

[Javert]

Like I said, "if true". A blanket denial by the WHO does nothing to assuage doubt.



And Tedros has form for corruption and motive to help China..



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/health/candidate-who-director-general-ethiopia-cholera-outbreaks.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/heal ... reaks.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/health/candidate-who-director-general-ethiopia-cholera-outbreaks.html







https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/international/487851-china-and-the-whos-chief-hold-them-both-accountable-for-pandemic%3Famp">https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.co ... emic%3famp">https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/international/487851-china-and-the-whos-chief-hold-them-both-accountable-for-pandemic%3famp



I'm not saying this makes OP true, but it is not a good look for Tedros is it?

If that's the best they've got then not really.



I guess it's not a good look only in the same sense that if I made up a bunch of completely fabricated personal allegations against you or anyone else, and then published them, I could then say "it's not a good look", but if the allegations are completely untrue, whilst the accuser has a very clear motive for wanting to smear that person, I would still dismiss it.

[Borg Refinery]

Like I said, "if true". A blanket denial by the WHO does nothing to assuage doubt.



And Tedros has form for corruption and motive to help China..



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/health/candidate-who-director-general-ethiopia-cholera-outbreaks.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/heal ... reaks.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/health/candidate-who-director-general-ethiopia-cholera-outbreaks.html

When Xi ordered Chinese health officials to speed up the development of drugs by using "integrated Chinese traditional herbal medicine and Western medicine," the WHO's official publication, "Q&A on coronaviruses (COVID-19)," made a subtle change. Chinese netizens found a discrepancy between the Chinese and English versions of a list of measures deemed ineffective against COVID-19. The English version listed four items - smoking, wearing multiple masks, taking antibiotics, and traditional herbal remedies. The fourth item was not included in the Chinese version. (Today the English version also has deleted that item.)



China recently pledged $20 million to help the WHO fight the COVID-19 outbreak, for which Tedros thanked Xi. But we note China's connections to Tedros's homeland of Ethiopia, now called East Africa's "Little China" because it has become China's bridgehead to influence Africa and a key to China's Belt and Road initiative there. Indeed, China has invested heavily in Ethiopia.



Tedros was elected to his position with the WHO in 2017, despite the fact that he was not trained as a medical doctor and had no global health management experience. A former minister of health and minister of foreign affairs for Ethiopia, Tedros is an executive member of the Tigray People's Liberation Front (TPLF) political party, which came to power through a struggle in 1991

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/international/487851-china-and-the-whos-chief-hold-them-both-accountable-for-pandemic%3Famp">https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.co ... emic%3famp">https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/international/487851-china-and-the-whos-chief-hold-them-both-accountable-for-pandemic%3famp



I'm not saying this makes OP true, but it is not a good look for Tedros is it?

[Javert]

The problem with this story is that it's completely fabricated.



Even the source says they "believe" a call occured on 21st January, whereas the WHO says that those 2 folks never spoke to each other at any time.  No evidence was provided that this call ever took place.



Further, if you go back to January, the WHO was already ringing very loud alarm bells even before 21st January, and even then, the record shows in black and white that he WHO declared a "Public Health Emergency of International Concern" which is the highest alert level they can raise on 30th January, which was only 9 days after this alleged (and no doubt non existent) call occcured and not the alleged 6 weeks.



The fact that the Trump administration (and the UK government also by the way) didn't properly respond to this declaration is not the WHO's fault, but the Trump administration is actually do different to Putin's Russia these days - they will just spout any old rubbish to try to blame foreigners for their mistakes and hope that some of the mud sticks.



The 6 weeks they are talking about here is mostly comprised of the period of time where certain Western governments were clearly warned what was coming by the WHO (and also by articled in the Lancet on 28th January also in clear black and white print) and their response during February and early March was woeful.

[Borg Refinery]

Ah sorry. Here's an alt source



https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.timesofindia.com/world/china/who-withheld-virus-info-after-china-pressure-report/amp_articleshow/75666706.cms">https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.timesofi ... 666706.cms">https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.timesofindia.com/world/china/who-withheld-virus-info-after-china-pressure-report/amp_articleshow/75666706.cms

[Barry]

I'm sure if true it is serious and takes some explaining. However the linked page is in German, I can't speak German, I can't find the article which you must be referring to and Google translate is inhibited on the site.

[Borg Refinery]

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/corona-ausbruch-who-dementiert-telefongespraech-mit-chinas-praesident-a-37678f1c-6960-453c-a317-8ef9feed8b7c-amp&usg=ALkJrhgR3HlpOID-I4J_-FIJ95Gf7YyJEQ">https://translate.googleusercontent.com ... 95Gf7YyJEQ">https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/corona-ausbruch-who-dementiert-telefongespraech-mit-chinas-praesident-a-37678f1c-6960-453c-a317-8ef9feed8b7c-amp&usg=ALkJrhgR3HlpOID-I4J_-FIJ95Gf7YyJEQ



Very, very bad news if true.