Washington Post and The Lancet

[papasmurf]

Again these issues may sound shocking to the layman,

What has always shocked me is that far too many of the research establishmentments and laboratories that mess about with dangerous substances and DNA/RNA of viruses are in the middle of high density populations.

Also all too often their basic safety and other aspects just are not up to standard.

It is a long time ago now but I had a guided tour of a such a research establisment on a week-end becuase the person showing me around had to check on and feed the animals. No security involved whatsoever.

[johnofgwent]

Well perhaps, but are you suggesting then that this virus was created on purpose as part of their experiments, or more that it's a mutation that occurred in the lab and then escaped?

A good question.



I am not entirely sure.



I was particularly interested in the fact that within a **VERY** short time after the lab was supposed to have been given samples of this virus it was able to produce diagnostic tests against key nucleic acid base sequences. I've been out of that line of work for decades, i have NO idea how long it takes these days.



I do not know much about the mutation rates in this particular virus. I know that other flu viruses mutate like buggery which is why you can catch them several times in a flu season if you are unlucky. In stark contrast some of the things i have read (which i cannot really speak to the accuracy or provenance of) suggest there is a rather low mutation rate. That is not in itself unusual, such things vary, but if it is true that it does not mutate greatly, then it does suggest to me that either this specific organism was under study in this establishment, having been harvested from creatures in the wild, or yes it was something being actively experimented on.



Again these issues may sound shocking to the layman, but i tell you now, a lot of very sick kids in AdddenBrookes and very sick people of all ages would be a hell of a lot sicker were the ALF to have got their way over a very, very sickly looking flock of sheep kept at the royal marsden.

[papasmurf]

Right



I am now more than ever convinced this bloody virus "did a birmingham university medical school" and jumped out of a bloody biolab

That would not surprise me at all given the number of cock-ups and escapes from British Level 4 laboratories and research labs over the years.

[Javert]

As I was at pains to point out, the facility mentioned appears in published research into these diseases for the purpose of finding ways to cure it. I don't have more details, if I did then i would have put this in the political news, or war and terrorism, forum, depending on what it was i could prove.



I'm sorry but my PERSONAL experience of failures in bio and chemical containment and family experience of nuclear containment failures IN THE UK leave me quite certain the idea this originated ion a dodgy food supply chain bloody laughable.

Well perhaps, but are you suggesting then that this virus was created on purpose as part of their experiments, or more that it's a mutation that occurred in the lab and then escaped?

[johnofgwent]

Based on what evidence?  Patient accounts?  



Also, how do they know this is truly patient 1, maybe this patient was infected by others who had all been asymptomatic or mild?



Also, as I said on another thread, even if this virus was released by mistake from a lab, that's no better or worse than it being released from an illegal market - both of them are, or at least should be, illegal negligence.



It's only if the virus was being developed as an illegal bio-weapon against international treaties that would make it worse, but that would then beg the question, it's not a very competent job given that 99% of people survive, and it mainly kills the least economically productive people in society. (I am not implying these people are off less worth, just assuming a motive on behalf of anyone who would want to release such a virus on purpose).

As I was at pains to point out, the facility mentioned appears in published research into these diseases for the purpose of finding ways to cure it. I don't have more details, if I did then i would have put this in the political news, or war and terrorism, forum, depending on what it was i could prove.



I'm sorry but my PERSONAL experience of failures in bio and chemical containment and family experience of nuclear containment failures IN THE UK leave me quite certain the idea this originated ion a dodgy food supply chain bloody laughable.

[Javert]

Patient #1 had no such exposure...

Based on what evidence?  Patient accounts?  



Also, how do they know this is truly patient 1, maybe this patient was infected by others who had all been asymptomatic or mild?



Also, as I said on another thread, even if this virus was released by mistake from a lab, that's no better or worse than it being released from an illegal market - both of them are, or at least should be, illegal negligence.



It's only if the virus was being developed as an illegal bio-weapon against international treaties that would make it worse, but that would then beg the question, it's not a very competent job given that 99% of people survive, and it mainly kills the least economically productive people in society. (I am not implying these people are off less worth, just assuming a motive on behalf of anyone who would want to release such a virus on purpose).

[johnofgwent]

Right



I am now more than ever convinced this bloody virus "did a birmingham university medical school" and jumped out of a bloody biolab



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/">https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... naviruses/">https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/



You'll have to click to accept cookies and agree to the "browse for free" option which gives you a limited number of articles a month.



This isn't the Chinese Porton Down, but it IS the Chinese Birmingham University Medical School / Addenbrookes /Royal Marsden, and the woman identified has a long - and pretty distinguished - history of looking through these nasty viruses  but the issue remains that there does seem to hbe a number of occasions on which the biosecurity of the unit was something to be concerned about.



The person identified - and the entire unit - deny they were the origin and point to them being the unit that identified the problem, but then of course, they would, wouldn't they.



An interesting reference is made to an article in the lancet



https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2820%2930183-5/fulltext">https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 5/fulltext">https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext



Towards the end of the article is a graph showing the connection of patients admitted, dates, and exposure to the wet market.



Patient #1 had no such exposure...