Interesting notes on funding for XR.

[Baron von Lotsov]

I guess you had worked all of that out yourself then Barony.

I'm just waiting for the day when someone says something sensible. No matter what these people say in our country who are the political reps, it is all crap. There is a whole internet full of it.



Except the man at the UKIP. He's doing a sterling job of decrapifying things for us.

[Sheepy]

I guess you had worked all of that out yourself then Barony.

[Baron von Lotsov]

But then even UN-sponsored health campaigns are decried by some as ways of killing off populations or making developing peoples infertile...

They hand out free condoms, so what do you expect these people's motives to be?

[patman post]

Here, let's educate ourselves a little.

http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2019/10/17/greta-thunberg-green-barbarism-and-climatestrike/">//http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2019/10/17/greta-thunberg-green-barbarism-and-climatestrike/

 :mrgreen:

But then even UN-sponsored health campaigns are decried by some as ways of killing off populations or making developing peoples infertile...

[patman post]

I've no proof — but it's a story that's gaining currency among those who discuss these things over a pint, as confirmed by a good friend's son — is that avid "Brexiteers-at-any-cost" are also the most ardent climate change deniers and use any excuse to smear anyone who's getting attention for their opposing views.



In the interests of balance I have to state that I'm a Remain believer and support those who are convinced that Britain is on course for the most massive self-harming event in its history. Because of this I will try to talk those Brexiteers that I see as being on the cliff edge out of trying to toss themselves off...

[Baron von Lotsov]

Meanwhile I've been dropping some facts on this group to Youtube watchers. Farage is leading the blind, so one need to correct misperceptions. The issue is about control. They do not understand this is a powerful political group. OK I accept many are American and are a bit in  the dark, but they seem to be clicking now. Yes indeed, Soros-funded. Now they understand! Wikipedia carries the facts, but not many chance on the right sequence of pages. The funding is very convoluted.

[Sheepy]

Seems to me that politicians like everything,have managed to create a situation of bad mental health and are determined to use it for their own advantage,by doing as they always do divide it up into their own little world of left and right,they are not only trying to convince everyone Brexit is doom and death,but have also convinced a whole generation that they will die out without them doing something about the climate,which will involve everything from what you eat to what you think and say.It will also mean of course any freedoms you did have will have to be handed over to control of the few,who will run things just like you asked them,for your own sake and your mental health.

So I just thought I would add my own interesting note.

[patman post]

I've no proof — but it's a story that's gaining currency among those who discuss these things over a pint, as confirmed by a good friend's son — is that avid "Brexiteers-at-any-cost" are also the most ardent climate change deniers and use any excuse to smear anyone who's getting attention for their opposing views.



In the interests of balance I have to state that I'm a Remain believer and support those who are convinced that Britain is on course for the most massive self-harming event in its history. Because of this I will try to talk those Brexiteers that I see as being on the cliff edge from continuing to toss themselves off...

[Barry]

Here, let's educate ourselves a little.

http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2019/10/17/greta-thunberg-green-barbarism-and-climatestrike/">//http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2019/10/17/greta-thunberg-green-barbarism-and-climatestrike/

 :mrgreen:

[Baron von Lotsov]

All fair comments. I have no more knowledge than you, just in this instance greater cynicism.



It is simply that in life today image seems to count so much more than substance. I remember Cameron cycling into Westminster from Putney claiming his green credentials. No one mentioned the close contact DPS cars shadowing every metre of his journey.

Wasn't it a car to carry his briefcase? I thought that's what i remember reading.

[Javert]

Too true - I understood they carried his red box and papers.

I must admit I'm not a big fan of this increasing trend (although it's always existed to some or other extent) to say that anyone who ever did anything hypocritical or something that didn't actually work, can therefore be completely ignored and dismissed, and their argument must be completely wrong.



To me, the question of what we should do about climate change and how quickly is a very important one and it's nigh on impossible for anyone to draw attention to this issue without being hypocritical in some way - if they choose to live in a cave and subsist on the bodies of dead ants, we would never have heard of them.  



In the case of some of the ER protesters, they have admitted that they are hypocritical and they want world governments to step in and mandate that everybody, including themselves, changes their behaviour in various ways.  Drawing attention to the mode of transport they took to get there and calling it hypocrisy is a good way to avoid the real discussion.



I'll grant you, there could be a real debate here around whether for any policies to combat climate change, the burden would fall unfairly on some parts of society whilst rich people can effectively carry on doing just what they are doing today, but this debate doesn't happen because it's drowned out in "look - he/she is is a hypocrite - just carry on as normal as anyone who is a hypocrite must be talking rubbish".



However, it's always been true in all walks of life that rich people could do more than poor people in terms of travel, opportunities etc - even if we do nothing about climate change at all, rich people can still afford more flights and cruises than poor people.  Further, if at some point in future there are a lot less flights because they are somehow constrained by climate policy, the prices will go up, so even more well off people will be impacted.



As regards Cameron - he was probably trying to set a visible example to others and leading by example.  Maybe some others took him up on it.  For sure there will be people who ignored him, but if a few hundred people decided to use their bikes because of his example, the net impact is higher than his security car.  The same point applies as I made above - it's not his fault he needs security protection as the PM.



I would submit that if anyone who ever did or said anything hypocritical should be excluded from political discussions, nobody on this forum would be able to post anything including me.

[T00ts]

All fair comments. I have no more knowledge than you, just in this instance greater cynicism.



It is simply that in life today image seems to count so much more than substance. I remember Cameron cycling into Westminster from Putney claiming his green credentials. No one mentioned the close contact DPS cars shadowing every metre of his journey.

Too true - I understood they carried his red box and papers.

[Major Sinic]

All fair comments. I have no more knowledge than you, just in this instance greater cynicism.



It is simply that in life today image seems to count so much more than substance. I remember Cameron cycling into Westminster from Putney claiming his green credentials. No one mentioned the close contact DPS cars shadowing every metre of his journey.

[Javert]

I normally prefer to deal in facts and reasoned opinions, preferably supported with facts. However on this occasion and, for what it is worth, I am repeating a story which is rife in the ocean going yachting world, of which a close friend of my son's is an eminent member.



The Swedish 'creation' Greta Thunberg sailed across the Atlantic to the USA, taking some two weeks, in an ocean going yacht to save energy. However apparently two of the four accompanying crew/team then flew back to Europe before flying back out to rejoin the yacht some days later. I can't prove it, but it seems to be widely accepted as the truth by many who live in that world.



It certainly wouldn't surprise me bearing in mind the levels of lies, distortions, disingenuity, obfuscation by so many in public life along with the false and biased reporting by all forms of the media.

Did Greta Thunberg make a claim that the crew of the yacht did not do that?  Are they even under her control?  As far as I know, she hitched a lift on the yacht in good faith, and she probably has zero control over what the rest of the yacht crew do with their private time, so I'm not sure how this is relevant.

[Sheepy]

Well how come,when we were told if we recycled we would save the planet,but nobody said it cost more to recycle and most of it has ended up in the Oceans anyway? Which now has the next stage in progress?