Germany to reopen borders on 15 June

[Borg Refinery]

Whatever works for you.    8-)



The figures speak for themselves.

[B0ycey]

Daily new cases in Sweden? Have you even checked that?

Yes, daily. It always brightens my mood in the morning to see the figures heading downwards whilst I sit here looking at the shit load of trash in my Garden, waiting for the fucking tip to open.



Also I look forward to seeing this explosion of deaths I was told I was going to see. So now we have not just per capita but a rolling average on top of that. But somehow we have to make the Swedes look bad for even daring to keep commerce open don't we. ::

[Borg Refinery]

Well gosh, excuse me for expecting you to read past the headline. All I did was posted a link



"Figures published by Our World in Data shows Sweden currently has the highest daily death rate per capita in the world. As of May 28, Sweden reported, on average, 5.50 COVID-19 deaths per million per day (on a seven-day rolling average) as outlined in the chart below."



That's from my link.



Daily new cases in Sweden? Have you even checked that?

[B0ycey]

There was no mention of per capita and a rolling average in the headline Dynamis. :roll:



Although I see you ignored the objective of lockdown anyways.

[Borg Refinery]

The evidence is the US and Brazil had over 1000 cases yesterday and Sweden had less than 50.  ::



The headline is misleading which is what I said. And relies on nations actually testing for Covid19 for accurate death figures - which is what I said. And Swedens death and case rate is plateauing (actually heading downwards) for a while now. Which again is what I said. Do you want me to actually provide the link for Worldometers?



It is getting to the point when Sweden can be shown as a success but people will fudge the meaning of things or find statistics to somehow justify they are somehow wrong because they want to believe that lockdown was worth something. The whole objective of lockdown was to flatten the curve - which Sweden did. Why do people get confused about that?

"The evidence is the US and Brazil had over 1000 cases yesterday and Sweden had less than 50.  :: "



Which alone proves that yet again you are clueless, we are talking about per capita death rates over a rolling 7 day average, and you are busy talking about cases in one day and even then comparing apples and oranges where the US is 300m+ people vs Sweden's 10m.  :shock:



The rest of it is even more wrong, although I take your point about undercounting; supposedly we too are undercounting care home and other deaths by 50% - and the US, Russia and many others are undercounting deaths by even more. The world death undercount may be 60%.



Then again Sweden's public health board admitted they had undercounted by 60% too so. 🤔 ..yet the Swedes are known for alarmingly high figures on many things compared to other countries; as authorities take extra meticulously careful measures to be accurate where others don't.



...then again, you hypocritically pointed to Belarus as a success story, when they are undercounting deaths seemingly more than anyone else in the world so...



..still, Lukashenko says ice hockey and vodka are the cure so for this so he can't be wrong.  ::  ::  ::

[B0ycey]

No, I specifically googled sweden death rates cos I saw this across several media sources yesterday.



The figures come from 'our world in data'.



Are they lying then? You're saying they are.



Ok. Evidence please?



https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?time=2020-05-28..&country=BRA~DEU~ITA~SWE~GBR~USA">https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/dail ... WE~GBR~USA">https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?time=2020-05-28..&country=BRA~DEU~ITA~SWE~GBR~USA

The evidence is the US and Brazil had over 1000 cases yesterday and Sweden had less than 50.  ::



The headline is misleading which is what I said. And relies on nations actually testing for Covid19 for accurate death figures - which is what I said. And Swedens death and case rate is plateauing (actually heading downwards) for a while now. Which again is what I said. Do you want me to actually provide the link for Worldometers?



It is getting to the point when Sweden can be shown as a success but people will fudge the meaning of things or find statistics to somehow justify they are somehow wrong because they want to believe that lockdown was worth something. The whole objective of lockdown was to flatten the curve - which Sweden did. Why do people get confused about that?

[Borg Refinery]

Well done for finding an article by Yahoo news. The big player in media and I'm sure you didn't just Google that to find something you can clinge to and instead most definitely read Yahoo news for you media fix  ::



Anyways the title is misleading as it isn't true unless you fudge it's meaning and hope that nations like Brazil are actually recording everything correctly. And cases and deaths are platueuing in Sweden and done so for quite some time. If the objective was to flatten the curve they have done that and more. And I see Germany is heading for a spike in cases too. Opening up the economy has consequences it seems.

No, I specifically googled sweden death rates cos I saw this across several media sources yesterday.



The figures come from 'our world in data'.



Are they lying then? You're saying they are.



Ok. Evidence please?



https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?time=2020-05-28..&country=BRA~DEU~ITA~SWE~GBR~USA">https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/dail ... WE~GBR~USA">https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?time=2020-05-28..&country=BRA~DEU~ITA~SWE~GBR~USA



But the Telegraph might suit your bias better I guess....



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/amp/">https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegr ... apita/amp/">https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/sweden-becomes-country-highest-coronavirus-death-rate-per-capita/amp/



I think the figures had shifted by late yesterday, but they were worst for the prev. 7 days on the 27th by many measures.

[B0ycey]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/coronavirus-sweden-lockdown-death-rate-144650769.html">https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo ... 50769.html">https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/coronavirus-sweden-lockdown-death-rate-144650769.html

Well done for finding an article by Yahoo news. The big player in media and I'm sure you didn't just Google that to find something you can clinge to and instead most definitely read Yahoo news for you media fix  ::



Anyways the title is misleading as it isn't true unless you fudge it's meaning and hope that nations like Brazil are actually recording everything correctly. And cases and deaths are platueuing in Sweden and done so for quite some time. If the objective was to flatten the curve they have done that and more. And I see Germany is heading for a spike in cases too. Opening up the economy has consequences it seems.

[Borg Refinery]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/coronavirus-sweden-lockdown-death-rate-144650769.html">https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo ... 50769.html">https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/coronavirus-sweden-lockdown-death-rate-144650769.html

[B0ycey]

I guess we'll see within 5 days.

And so we move on Javert.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52844350">//https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52844350



You can seek it. And you can try and destroy it. But this little bugger even evades South Korea and its invasive seeking tactics. Which means unless those nations want to keep locking down everything time they have an outbreak, they will have to work around the virus and accept that people need to safeguard their own risk. We have been here before.



Sweden doing well so far.

[Javert]

That's not what I meant - they are tracking and testing everyone who even came into contact with anyone else form the nightclub - about 20,000 people so far, and testing them all, whether they have symptoms or not.



I guess we'll see within 5 days.

[B0ycey]

The trace and track comes into effect after this happened - they have tracked 20,000 (no not a typo) contacts spreading out from that one incident and they believe they have contained it.

South Korea have implemented the "seek and destroy" strategy since its first case so not last week. But when you have a virus where 80% of the victims are asystematic, seek and destroy by tracking and tracing becomes almost impossible. Why? Because it takes just one person under the radar to increase the infection rate again by simply going around doing their normal living, spreading the virus on door handles railings ATMs or whatever else someone else touches in a daily basis. And trust me when I say Westerners who are sacred for having their mobile phones numbers stored by governments will shit themselves if they knew how intrusive SK are with their tracking and tracing. They do a proper Big Brother job. So basically what I am trying to say is even South Korea can't get on top of this and they are going way above and beyond what anyone else is doing.

[Javert]

SK also had 100 new cases from a nightclub and they have a very intensive and intrusive seek and destroy policy which couldn't prevent that.

The trace and track comes into effect after this happened - they have tracked 20,000 (no not a typo) contacts spreading out from that one incident and they believe they have contained it.

[B0ycey]

They are also looking at international holidays and the EU say "we will have a holiday season this year!"  :shrg:



The question now is can Germany maintain the R0 below 1? They are definitely a success story for containing the virus but will they be able to keep their gains by having their populous globe trotting, visiting zoos and beaches and shopping? And now they are opening up the economy, early signs say cases are rising meaning they are heading towards the path of losing their gains.



SK also had 100 new cases from a nightclub and they have a very intensive and intrusive seek and destroy policy which couldn't prevent that. Also some of the populous of Europe including the UK are moaning about security levels of apps for FFS. So I don't see how testing is going to be the answer to this if we also want to keep our liberty. So unfortunately everyone is going to have to mitigate the risk and accept at least some deaths if they want to see outdoors before a vaccine that according to WHO may never come.

[Barry]

I think this link is the relevant one.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-aims-to-reopen-borders-what-you-need-to-know/a-53425563">//https://www.dw.com/en/germany-aims-to-reopen-borders-what-you-need-to-know/a-53425563



Hopefully, by the middle of June, the worst of this will be over, throughout Europe.