It’s time to stop kidding ourselves: we don’t live in a democracy

[HDQQ]

We live in a partial democracy with a hereditary head of state and an unelected House of Lords.

And democracy is flawed anyway - and I'm not using that to argue against democracy, but we should be looking for better and fairer forms of democracy.  The USA elected Trump 'fairly and squarely' according to their system of democracy, although he got fewer votes than his opponent.  Germany elected the Nazi party to power democratically at the start of the 1930's, Hitler became Chancellor and then turned himself into a dictator.

[Borg Refinery]

Time's marched on since 2011, and Leveson 2 is an now an irrelevance championed mainly by celebrities embarrassed by disclosures about their activities.

You could not be more wrong.  The mainly by celebrities is propaganda from the press.
A lot of poor and vulnerable people have been attacked by the press because the press know they can't fight back.

Did you bother to read the link:-

https://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2012/12/06/leveson-tory-mp-conor-burns-attempts-to-muzzle-third-party-complaints-by-disabled-people-and-other-sinister-minorities-subjected-to-tabloid-media-hate-and-defamation-campaigns/

Then there is this which was evidence to Leveson:-

Origin:-

https://www.gla.ac.uk/media/Media_214917_smxx.pdf

Easily copied and pasted version:-

Far more at link:-

https://dpac.uk.net/2011/11/bad-news-for-disabled-people-how-the-newspapers-are-reporting-disability/

There has been a significant increase in the reporting of disability in the print media with 713 disability related articles in 2004-5 compared to 1015 in a comparable period in 2010-11.   This increase has been accompanied by a shift in the way that disability is being reported and there is now increased politicisation of media coverage of disability in 2010-11 compared to 2004-5;
There has been a reduction in the proportion of articles which describe disabled people in sympathetic and deserving terms, and stories that document the 'real life' experiences of living as a disabled person have also decreased. Some impairment groups are particularly less likely to receive sympathetic treatment: people with mental health conditions and other 'hidden' impairments were more likely to be presented as 'undeserving'.
Articles focusing on disability benefit and fraud increased from 2.8% in 2005/5 to 6.1% in 2010/11.  When the focus groups were asked to describe a typical story in the newspapers on disability benefit fraud was the most popular theme mentioned.
These articles are impacting on people's views and perceptions of disability related benefits.  The focus groups all claimed that levels of fraud were much higher than they are in reality, with some suggesting that up to 70% of claimants were fraudulent.  Participants justified these claims by reference to articles they had read in newspapers.

We're going to need something much wider reaching than that IMHO, it didn't go far enough, but it in addition to other measurzs would help.

Most importantly, social media should be heavily regulated

[Borg Refinery]

We live in a phony, fake democracy, where our so called Freely elected leaders are no more than the fully bought and paid for shills of special interests, left right and center.

To understand how and why, you simply need to look at the candidate selection process for all the major parties, to see just who gets the safe seats and a guaranteed easy ride all the way to the top.

And the multi line whip system.

Maybe we should simply disallow party affiliation and force every politician to be an individual..

[papasmurf]

How does one decide who is a reliable source of information?

Go back to the source, before it was spun by government, the media/press, or selectively quoted out of context.
It only needs one word to be altered in a government commissioned report to make a very big difference.

[Sheepy]

How does one decide who is a reliable source of information? Millennium bugs, mad cow disease, Pandemics, crazy Russians, crazy politicians, greedy corporations, mad scientists, dodgy dossiers, media who make it up as they go along, the list is endless.
Oh and people who have the right to read any data gathered and change it at will or just delete it.

[papasmurf]

, its the clowns who claim certain platforms are unbiased that i have a problem with.....

Precisely.

[Thomas]

and the only reliable sources of information are found on social media where the news is mainly drawn from conspiracy theories embellished with whatever currently upsetting the blogger/poster/writer...

Who has said this apart from you?

You appear to be making this up postman.

What many folk say is that the interwebby offer alternative points of view, and then people can then make up their mind wether or not it fits their opinion.

No one is suggesting the internet is unbiased. All information is biased , its the clowns who claim certain platforms are unbiased that i have a problem with.....

[patman post]

It is because the press are still getting away with it and Leveson being implemented is more urgent than ever.

Why is that still worrying you? We're told the mainstream media is all bought and paid for lies, and the only reliable sources of information are found on social media where the news is mainly drawn from conspiracy theories embellished with whatever currently upsetting the blogger/poster/writer...

[papasmurf]

It's no good posting screeds from a decade ago

It is because the press are still getting away with it and Leveson being implemented is more urgent than ever.

[patman post]

It's no good posting screeds from a decade ago — Leveson in 2011 laid bare illegal practices by some newspapers and journalists.
But, as I posted, time has moved on, and Leveson 2 would divert money and effort from investigating current and more dangerous practices...

[papasmurf]

Time's marched on since 2011, and Leveson 2 is an now an irrelevance championed mainly by celebrities embarrassed by disclosures about their activities.

You could not be more wrong.  The mainly by celebrities is propaganda from the press.
A lot of poor and vulnerable people have been attacked by the press because the press know they can't fight back.

Did you bother to read the link:-

https://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2012/12/06/leveson-tory-mp-conor-burns-attempts-to-muzzle-third-party-complaints-by-disabled-people-and-other-sinister-minorities-subjected-to-tabloid-media-hate-and-defamation-campaigns/

Then there is this which was evidence to Leveson:-

Origin:-

https://www.gla.ac.uk/media/Media_214917_smxx.pdf

Easily copied and pasted version:-

Far more at link:-

https://dpac.uk.net/2011/11/bad-news-for-disabled-people-how-the-newspapers-are-reporting-disability/

There has been a significant increase in the reporting of disability in the print media with 713 disability related articles in 2004-5 compared to 1015 in a comparable period in 2010-11.   This increase has been accompanied by a shift in the way that disability is being reported and there is now increased politicisation of media coverage of disability in 2010-11 compared to 2004-5;
There has been a reduction in the proportion of articles which describe disabled people in sympathetic and deserving terms, and stories that document the 'real life' experiences of living as a disabled person have also decreased. Some impairment groups are particularly less likely to receive sympathetic treatment: people with mental health conditions and other 'hidden' impairments were more likely to be presented as 'undeserving'.
Articles focusing on disability benefit and fraud increased from 2.8% in 2005/5 to 6.1% in 2010/11.  When the focus groups were asked to describe a typical story in the newspapers on disability benefit fraud was the most popular theme mentioned.
These articles are impacting on people's views and perceptions of disability related benefits.  The focus groups all claimed that levels of fraud were much higher than they are in reality, with some suggesting that up to 70% of claimants were fraudulent.  Participants justified these claims by reference to articles they had read in newspapers.

[patman post]

It can never be a democracy unless Leveson 2 is fully implemented.

Time's marched on since 2011, and Leveson 2 is an now an irrelevance championed mainly by celebrities embarrassed by disclosures about their activities.
Better to spend the time and money looking at largely unregulated social media world's issues of clickbait, fake news, malicious disinformation, online abuse, etc...

[papasmurf]

Ah well, we do as long as we follow all narratives as set out in, the civil service manual, page 101, section 11, subsection 21, paragraph 6, which states, any gathering of more than two people not following said narrative, is contrary to Parliamentary democracy and must be deemed subversive, all subversives must immediately, be taught through re-education of sorts that said civil service always know what is best for you.

According to Tory MP Conor Burns back in 2012 I am a part of "sinister minority," I am proud to be that:-

https://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2012/12/06/leveson-tory-mp-conor-burns-attempts-to-muzzle-third-party-complaints-by-disabled-people-and-other-sinister-minorities-subjected-to-tabloid-media-hate-and-defamation-campaigns/

[Sheepy]

Ah well, we do as long as we follow all narratives as set out in, the civil service manual, page 101, section 11, subsection 21, paragraph 6, which states, any gathering of more than two people not following said narrative, is contrary to Parliamentary democracy and must be deemed subversive, all subversives must immediately, be taught through re-education of sorts that said civil service always know what is best for you. 

[johnofgwent]

The monarchy remains so inexplicably (to me) popular at the moment that this is the part I knew many people might take issue with.


....There are plenty of other unsuitables out there.

It's an old and oft travelled road, but I think the issue is twofold, first as I pointed to, the unpalatable nature of the alternative, and second the disaster that the current holder of the role has allowed it to become.

The monarch's role as constitutional head of state as cemented by the restoration of the long parliament and the throne under Charles II after the demise of cromwell and the utter unsuitablity of his nominated successor was never that of a huge and burgeoning family firm as it is now.

We need a return to the situation before the current monarch's expansion of the public purse to the wider royal family.

And we need to start using abdication as other western monarchies do, because the job of "monarch" is, more than anything else, a job for a YOUNG person, not a geriatric.

We have been hobbled to view abdication as dereliction of duty for the basest of reasons and it is time that view was taken out and shot.

Liz and Phil need to be told to bugger off and the job given not to her philandering son, but her eldest grandson, a man who outwardly at least seems to have kept a firm hand on the image of his family unit as a fairly happy one, and who by now is surely more than ready to take the crown. He should be given it, on the strict understanding that he is expected to hand it over to his firstborn when they have reached the point in their life that he has.

As for Charles, Camilla,  The duke of pork (or should that now be "pork sword") and the rest of that generation, they should have been encouraged VERY firmly (with the alternative being an enforced ride through paris's back streets in a mercedes) to follow the example of Princess Anne. To go find something useful to do and piss the hell off. Their use to the country as a monarch would now require the release of a number of bullets that even the most inept security detail would take down the marksman before their goal was achieved. They have no place in the monarchy and should walk. In reality the only two of the current sovereign's children I have any respect for are Anne and Edward. The former for her good sense in reinventing herself through her immersion in charity work, the latter for having the strength of character to first tell his Royal Marine Commando Commanding officer he was terribly sorry but signing up was a dreadful mistake and he wished to walk down washout alley, and then having the further inner strength to tell Prince Philip, whose ideas on childraising were dinosaurial even in the fifties, that he was terribly sorry but he was not curt out to kill people with his bare hands to please his father, and was going to be a dancer.