Does Jesus' colour matter?

[Barry]

Good post, but the Bible is pretty clear that He was not a clone, but the product of the Holy Spirit. MY real question is whether one of Mary's eggs was used, or not. I tend to prefer the idea that one was.

I guess plenty of people have been/continue to be/or would be, conceived as a product of some spirit or another —  so three cheers for the morning after pill for those who need it.
As for parthenogenesis in humans — it seems unlikely. Surely there would have to be such a vast number of mutations in genetic material to trigger enough chromosomes and relevant proteins to prompt an egg to form a viable embryo? Maybe one day in a lab somewhere... Until then it's faith and indoctrination v current scientific thinking...

Spoken as a true unbeliever.

[patman post]

Good post, but the Bible is pretty clear that He was not a clone, but the product of the Holy Spirit. MY real question is whether one of Mary's eggs was used, or not. I tend to prefer the idea that one was.

I guess plenty of people have been/continue to be/or would be, conceived as a product of some spirit or another —  so three cheers for the morning after pill for those who need it.
As for parthenogenesis in humans — it seems unlikely. Surely there would have to be such a vast number of mutations in genetic material to trigger enough chromosomes and relevant proteins to prompt an egg to form a viable embryo? Maybe one day in a lab somewhere... Until then it's faith and indoctrination v current scientific thinking...

[patman post]

Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby addressed the question of how the western church portrays Jesus's race. When asked by an interviewer on the BBC whether it is time to "reimagine" the physical presentation, the Archbishop answered: "Yes, of course it does," and noted that in many locations of the Anglican church, Jesus was already represented other than as a white man.

"You go into their churches and you don't see a White Jesus – you see a Black Jesus, or Chinese Jesus, or a Middle Eastern Jesus – which is of course the most accurate. You see a Fijian Jesus – you see Jesus portrayed in as many ways as there are cultures, languages and understandings."

All seems a fair description of the situation. When I was a kid in a really mixed environment, I gradually began to question why Jesus always seemed to be depicted as a fair-haired almost Scandinavian figure. In later life, I've rationalised it that most well known pictures of Jesus were by European artists who painted for their audience, often under commission...

[Streetwalker]

Good post, but the Bible is pretty clear that He was not a clone, but the product of the Holy Spirit. MY real question is whether one of Mary's eggs was used, or not. I tend to prefer the idea that one was.

Well just as Im  getting my head around when people say he was this color or that colour you now ask whos eggs were used ? 


Yes hello is that the Bethlehem IVF clinic (speaking how can we help, O hi yes my name is Mary and me and Joe are having a bit of trouble in the baby making department , Joes still waiting for viagra to be invented if you know what I mean ,any ideas?

Well yes we can impregnate you with various combinations of eggs and semen from lowly sheep herders to God himself  ,any preference ?

Thats good Ill take a couple of olive eggs and a bit of the holy ghost . Will he be doing the how's your father in person

Thats extra madam ,but would you like to confirm the order

I dont mind paying the extra , where do I send the cheque ?

Ok lovely ,that will be lets see olive eggs ,,,erm  20 each   thats  without taxes , Semen of God 70 and the personal service thats an extra 150 Im afraid  da  de da de da  Call it 300 for cash and Ill throw in a donkey OK ,just give it to the big fella on the night  , bye .

[Barry]

My first thought, 'if Jesus only had a biological Mother, he would only have the girl chromosomes.. therefore, He would in fact be a She'.  Obviously in 2020 men being women is a lot more common (thanks to the LBGTMGJCBLOLPMSL movement, we are reminded of this - and guys sorry the NHS stole your rainbow thing) but back in the early 90's... not so much!

Jessica Christ anyone?

Good post, but the Bible is pretty clear that He was not a clone, but the product of the Holy Spirit. MY real question is whether one of Mary's eggs was used, or not. I tend to prefer the idea that one was.

[MrMonkey23]

Whilst I agree that, in probability, Jesus would have likely been more 'Mediterranean' looking than he is typically pictured, I do understand that the people who 'spread' Christianity through the world would have done so in an image that suited their cause.  Also add to the fact he was a carpenter (or possibly more likely, something more reminiscent of a laborer).  The historic images of him hanging on the cross with nails through his palms - not accurate (perhaps some more medically educated types would correct me, but I doubt the soft tissues of the palms would hold the weight of even an 'ideal weight' adult male).  So really should we not see the image as more of a product of history?

Why were black people suppressed in early history (I am not talking the last few hundred years, I am talking further back) - did they simply not spread the word?  As well as challenging the white people who spread this image, they should challenge their ancestors for not being more 'proactive' in the cause they now want to align to and put the argument for a 'black jesus' out there back then!  Again, we could have the same argument that likely, he was not 'black' either!

An interesting point was made by a priest, which I relate to but must confess I have never been able to word it correctly.  We are taught that our relationship with God (Jesus, Allah etc) is largely a personal faith - like the image of the parent suggest, they are what we need them to be.  There are images of 'black' Jesus, far far predating the BLM movement and all the current hype.  I would never tell a black person to take down an image of Jesus from their ethnic group - ultimately Jesus needs to be what you feel he is to you.  If you relate to Jesus as white, carry on with that.  If you relate to him as black, do that.  Yes he likely had olive skin, but can anyone really say for sure what he looked like?  I for one was not there and from memory, there are no photographs.

Now to really throw the cat among the pigeons - when I was about 10 (maybe 11) at school we learned about the chromosomes which make us boys and girls.  My first thought, 'if Jesus only had a biological Mother, he would only have the girl chromosomes.. therefore, He would in fact be a She'.  Obviously in 2020 men being women is a lot more common (thanks to the LBGTMGJCBLOLPMSL movement, we are reminded of this - and guys sorry the NHS stole your rainbow thing) but back in the early 90's... not so much!

Jessica Christ anyone?

[Streetwalker]

It doesn't matter that he was born and lived his life in Judea or where ever he wandered  he was the son of God and God is White . So White in fact that his son was born as white as white

The Bishop bloke has always struck me as a bit of a Nancy and if he does believe Jesus should be portrayed as black or olive he may have a prob getting his flock to take the knee at the alter . I don't think his gig would ever had taken off had Jesus been portrayed black back in the 1st C

[johnofgwent]

But Justin Welby? I am sure he means well but

He does get a bit confused for a vicar.

Archbishop of Canterbury admits doubts about existence of God

hardly news, the archbishop of york back in the late 80's doubted the resurrection. the lightning strike on york minster the week before i visited the city for the first time, which took place pretty soon after said archbishops ordination or whatever, did raise a few eyebrows.

but to come back and address toots' point, i think it matters to some.

[Barry]

But Justin Welby? I am sure he means well but

He does get a bit confused for a vicar.

Archbishop of Canterbury admits doubts about existence of God

[Borchester]

I have always thought as Jesus as a smart, tolerant Jewish lad from Golders Green and with the matching ability to laugh at himself.

But Justin Welby? I am sure he means well but his head is so far up his own arse it is only natural that he has a suntan.

[Barry]

I've thought about this subject before and decided it is interesting, but irrelevant.
I suppose that the average Middle Eastern man from the Galilee / Jordan Valley area would be olive skinned, but we don't really know.
The physical descriptions of Jesus are at the transfiguration, where something unique was going on, and in Revelation which is obviously post resurrection and post transfiguration and ascension.
There are very few physical descriptions that I can remember in scripture, other than these.

Edited typo

[T00ts]

The thing about Jesus is that His nationality is irrelevant.

In that cast, why depict him as white?  There are less white people in the world than other nationalities so surely if the colour is irrelevant he should be represented either by the most common skin colour worldwide, or a randomly selected one in each picture?

I think the point of the discussion that was trying to be raised, is that different cultures tend to appropriate and subtly (or sometimes less the subtly) alter the images, meaning, and content of their religion according to their own cultural preferences.

This is done to the point where some religious groups have added extra books to their religious text detailing how their saviour visited their own town as it's where the only true believers live or whatever

I think that is what I have been trying to get across. We have been predominantly white here therefore it follows that He has been represented that way.

[Javert]

The thing about Jesus is that His nationality is irrelevant.

In that cast, why depict him as white?  There are less white people in the world than other nationalities so surely if the colour is irrelevant he should be represented either by the most common skin colour worldwide, or a randomly selected one in each picture?

I think the point of the discussion that was trying to be raised, is that different cultures tend to appropriate and subtly (or sometimes less the subtly) alter the images, meaning, and content of their religion according to their own cultural preferences.

This is done to the point where some religious groups have added extra books to their religious text detailing how their saviour visited their own town as it's where the only true believers live or whatever

[T00ts]

We are not rewriting history by making Him white.

Amazing. Quite amazing.
I'll leave my thoughts at that.

It's always a good trick to take something out of context and fake amazement.

[Nalaar]

We are not rewriting history by making Him white.

Amazing. Quite amazing.
I'll leave my thoughts at that.