What a surprise - food standards being dropped for US deal

[Barry]

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[cromwell]

Mod Notice

Ok I will make this official,any members with concerns contact the mod team or admin as appropriate.

[papasmurf]

admins: are spoof accounts allowed?

 :hattip

[BeElBeeBub]

It's about the UK food standards that we were told explicitly would not be lowered for a US trade deal, now being lowered for a US trade deal



Here is Gove, co-leader of Leave campaign and minster both before and after the referendum making that promise.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-40725738/michael-gove-says-no-to-chlorinated-chicken">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politi ... ed-chicken">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-40725738/michael-gove-says-no-to-chlorinated-chicken



We are entitled to ask why we are now being told we will accept US food standards after being promised we wouldn't



I included Gove as there is no defense that he wasn't in power or couldn't make those promises.

[BeElBeeBub]

This is true. Also we should trust politicians like Michael Gove who are on our side. We, the people, voted for this and if it means we must get chlorinated chicken, then so be it.



This Trump administration is our friends, not the likes of Juncker and Macron! We must get out as soon as possible.

admins: are spoof accounts allowed?

[cromwell]

This thread is not about Brexit.

And you're not a mod,but a past master at taking threads off topic so I'd pipe down if I were you.

[papasmurf]

This. It's past time we left.

This thread is not about Brexit.

[HallowedBrexit]

This si all about ideology.

Pro EU/anti US.

Nothing more.

Politics dressed as science.

This. It's past time we left.

[BeElBeeBub]

3ppm is just slightly higher than a well managed swimming pool. (I used to manage 2 pools).

correct, definitely not tap water.



Again focussing on the chlorine misses the point.  It's about the standards that make the wash necessary.



Are you aware there are no flock density limits in the US? You can (and they do) pack chickens in at a far higher density than the UK.  Not only does this mean you can get more birds per shed, but as they can't move as much more of the feed goes into growing. The net result is you can produce a kg of chicken cheaper. However, higher density also means higher levels of infections (no social distancing or masks!).

Have you seen the death rate in America from eating contaminated food?

Yes I have



"CDC estimates that each year roughly 1 in 6 Americans (or 48 million people) gets sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 3,000 die of foodborne diseases:



On a per capita basis that's 4x number of incidents, 2x hospitalisations and 3x deaths compared to the UK.



Country to country comparisons are hard, for example the number of US admissions is probably skewed by their healthcare system and that may increase the deaths.  However it is hard to argue that their food is as safe as the UK.

[papasmurf]

 obesity is more their problem, not food poisoning.

Endocrine disruptors in agrochemicals that ends up in their food is the cause of some of that.

[papasmurf]

This si all about ideology.

Pro EU/anti US.

Nothing more.

Politics dressed as science.

No it isn't, you really are out of touch, You forgot the growth hormones widely used in America but banned in Europe and Britain, and the 80 or so agrichemicals used in America but banned in the EU and Britain.

Just do some study on endocrine disruptors agrochemicals.

You can eat American imported food if you like I have no intention of doing so.

[HallowedBrexit]

3ppm is just slightly higher than a well managed swimming pool. (I used to manage 2 pools).

Have you seen the death rate in America from eating contaminated food?

Bodies are hardly littering the streets, are they, in fact, obesity is more their problem, not food poisoning.

This is true. Also we should trust politicians like Michael Gove who are on our side. We, the people, voted for this and if it means we must get chlorinated chicken, then so be it.



This Trump administration is our friends, not the likes of Juncker and Macron! We must get out as soon as possible.

[Barry]

I know quite a bit about the chemistry of chlorine disinfectant as I manage a private water supply.  The limits on chlorine poultry wash are much higher than tap water (3ppm vs 0.5typ for tap water).  Chlorine as a biocide wash is being phased out in favor of others such as ozone and peroxide.



It's about the reasons why the wash is needed in the first place.

3ppm is just slightly higher than a well managed swimming pool. (I used to manage 2 pools).

Have you seen the death rate in America from eating contaminated food?

Bodies are hardly littering the streets, are they, in fact, obesity is more their problem, not food poisoning.

[BeElBeeBub]

If you wash chicken in tap water the water has chlotine in it.



Since you've doen the research, you will be able to answer these simple questions.

What concentrations of chlorine are you suggesting is on a chicken that is sprayed with it, that isn't on a tomato that was sprayed with it?



Understand this, chlorine gas mixes with water and becomes Hcl.

It evaporates.



Babies swim in swimming pools with far higher concentrations than this.

Rain water is as acidic as this.

Saliva is way more acidic than this.



You stomach is full of strnger acid than this in vastly higher concetrations



It's harmless unless used in the kind of doses seen in chemical warfare in Syria and even then... it's a non lethal weapon.

An irritant.

It contains no toxins.

But you have done your research, So you know all that. Wise guy.





This si all about ideology.

Pro EU/anti US.

Nothing more.

Politics dressed as science.

I know quite a bit about the chemistry of chlorine disinfectant as I manage a private water supply.  The limits on chlorine poultry wash are much higher than tap water (3ppm vs 0.5typ for tap water).  Chlorine as a biocide wash is being phased out in favor of others such as ozone and peroxide.



It's about the reasons why the wash is needed in the first place.

[BeElBeeBub]

EU regulations allow for greater levels of anti biotic use than US regulations.

Both have been significantly lowered in the past 2 years.



UK farmers however operate at under half the levels of either EU or US.

Our produce is compliant with both EU and US markets.

Our products are compliant to UK standards and those are (for now) accepted across the EU - likewise we accept EU products as compliant here.



UK products are not compliant with US standards (and vice versa)



There are several possibilities with any US/UK trade deal

1. It's tariff only, if the US wants to sell products here they have to meet UK standards and vice versa

2. The US changes it's food standards to match the UK's and we mutually recognize therefore any US compliant product is also UK compliant and vice versa

3. The UK changes it's food standards to match the USA's and we mutually recognize therefore any US compliant product is also UK compliant and vice versa

4. Neither side changes their regulations but both mutually recognize.



The US isn't interested in 1 or 2

3 would see us basically have US standard food produced here.  This would make it extremely hard for UK producers to export to the EU, which is a closer and bigger market than the US

4 would see UK producers held to UK standards whilst having to compete with food produced to cheaper US standards. THis would be extremely hard for them to do. Processed foods in the UK would struggle to export to the EU market as they would have to show that no US standard ingredients were used (for example GM foods are prevalent in the US and often unlabeled).  The US often insists on labeling restrictions to prevent consumers from being able to discriminate based on origin.

Chlorination does not make food unsafe to eat.

All your EU salads are chlorinated.



If you add water,it becomes HCl.

It washes off in water and contains zero toxins.

Again, you are missing the point.  The problem isn't the chlorine per se, it's the process before the chlorine was that make the chlorine wash necessary.



It is sensible to wash salad because it is much harder to remove.  however even there the US has lower standards.  It is not madatory to test the irrigation water for E.Coli.  The rationale is the chlorine (usually peroxide or ozone now) wash will kill any e.coli.  However if something goes wrong and the salad isn't washed correctly (maybe some leaves were stuck together, maybe the wash wasn't at full strength that day) there is a much greater chance of food poisoning.  Half of all food poisoning incidents in the US are plant related.  Last year Romaine lettuce was banned throughout the entire US because of a mass contamination issue.  

P.S. the UK also advises you to cook your chicken to avoid Salmonella.

yes because only a moron would deliberately eat raw chicken.  The point is that in the US, if a batch of chicken tests +ve for salmonella it can still be sold.  In the UK it wouldn't be allowed.  



The end result is that if (as does happen) something goes wrong with the cooking process the chances of actually getting salmonella from an under cooked UK chicken are much lower than an US under cooked chicken.