Re:3rd referendum

[Sheepy]

I have admitted defeat - I think several times on this thread and others I have pointed out that leave have won, we have left the EU, and we will be leaving with a very hard Brexit on January 1st, even if there is a deal.

As I also keep saying, that doesn't mean I have to admit this was a good decision, nor do I have to admit that trying to stop Brexit was a fundamentally anti democratic thing to do.  That would only be the case if for example the army was used to try to stop Brexit, or fraudulent fake ballots, or something like that.

No you haven't Javert, you have constantly cried like a baby, I bet the majority of us here happily admit through our lives we have made some bad mistakes, which luckily somebody picks up the pieces and we learn from them, whereas you are so fecking perfect and couldn't possibly be wrong, even when everyone else can see it.

[Borg Refinery]

You seem determined to read much more into my posts than intended.

That dodgy microdot reader I bought from Yuriy seems to tell me everyone has it infamy.. Да.

On a related note..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/10/johnsons-biden-win-tweet-contains-hidden-trump-congratulations

Oh no, spycraft.

[Nick]

But they were an ex communist country a fairly short time ago. They are on their way to becoming self supporting.

People expect places to just change overnight, that's not possible is it.

No one is disputing that but saying they are almost a net contributor is ridiculous.

[Baff]

There is a problem with democacry.
If what you want is unpopular, democracy will attempt to prevent you from forcing your will on others.

It just isn't for some people.

If your politics are so unpopular that you can't win a vote, democracy isn't something you are ever going to support.

[T00ts]

Ok I agree with that, but doesn't mean you have to patronize everyone who disagrees as 'children'.

You seem determined to read much more into my posts than intended.

[Borg Refinery]

You kidding? Poland are the biggest leaches in the EU. They take over 11 billion more than they pay in.

But they were an ex communist country a fairly short time ago. They are on their way to becoming self supporting.

People expect places to just change overnight, that's not possible is it.

Only a few ex soviet bloc countries have become rich western europeanish nations (despite being e european). And there's the constant meddling from Russia in politics over there.

Some countries remain prosperous despite the struggles, but even Estonia is feeling it severely. Slovenia has gone downhill under Jansa also.

[Nick]

From what I see, countries like Poland have become stabilised i'to almost being net contributors.

You kidding? Poland are the biggest leaches in the EU. They take over 11 billion more than they pay in.

[Borg Refinery]

I don't follow your logic at all. My view is that all opinions are valued. I just take exception to the constant references to anyone over a certain age having no worthwhile opinion on Brexit, as if age is some sort of encumbrance.

Ok I agree with that, but doesn't mean you have to patronize everyone who disagrees as 'children'.

Dyno is only a kid Toots. Just smile sweetly and ignore him.

A 70 year old pensionable naughty school kid with a sweet toith for being a windy upper with a love for logarithims..

I know you are but what am I!!!!!!

You're not taking into account the Once in a lifetime speech by DC where he stated that over 30 times. I think it was pretty clear that it was a once in a lifetime vote.

Nope I didn't write that and don't share Javid's beliefs.   

[Borg Refinery]

At my induction for my new job a couple of weeks ago I openly said to the HR woman "I hope the annual appraisals don't have the 'where do you see yourself in ten years time' question, because I tell you now, at 63,the answer I feel most likely is 'a grey ash dug into a rose bed in some garden of remembrance' and I think my pension actuaries think so too ....
I hear this morning that Des O Connor has gone to join one side or other in the celestial music hall of fame...

But in reality what we are actually reading is "a man in his 80's just joined the "NOT AT ALL exceptionally" large number of people who'll never see a 90th birthday card"

Life is a terminal illness. Some of us have reason to believe  this to be our last christmas.

Some of them might yet be surprised to find last Christmas was. That's what happenned to Dad in 2005 after all.

I'm not there yet.

But several of my friends are - and the numbers are growing weekly - thanks to the way the NHS abandoned cancer treatment thanks to the Chinese

I'm really sorry to hear that.

[Borg Refinery]

It is a fact the 1957 Treaty Of Rome in its original form, the 1960's negotiating documents assembled for the team Charles De Gaulle said "Non" to, and the 1970's documents Heath had put together by taking up where they left off and running with them, all make it clear it is a founding principle of the community as dictated by its socialist values that funds be channeled from the profitable members of the community to the basket cases.

If that were an action that had any possible merit or benefit, it should surely have been seen in the 63 years since that treaty was signed.

Instead, I see a bunch of countries who remain basket cases, whose youth unemployment is the stuff fascist armies are built from and a troika of jackbooted bankers led by an east german hell bent on finishing with a banknote the job hitler started with a luftwaffe
Where is the promised equality among the nations of the community ? All I see is the germans being pulled to the bottom of the barrel ...

I thought you said the Germans profit off of usband our economy tanks while theirs goes up. 

You can't have it both ways.

From what I see, countries like Poland have become stabilised i'to almost being net contributors.

I don't agree with further EU expansion at all and hope for a looser confederal EU but, I feel convergence will be achieved eventually. The 'basket case'.economy that really sticks out is Greece sadly, but I think even they can be sorted out over time.

Those 'basket cases' were under Fascismor military juntas for a long while.

[Javert]

So there comes a point javert where you have to admit defeat and the fact you hold a minority view, but you wont , so you merely look silly. Most of us accept in a democracy the majority view goes. You dont appear to , so there you go. What else is there to say?

I have admitted defeat - I think several times on this thread and others I have pointed out that leave have won, we have left the EU, and we will be leaving with a very hard Brexit on January 1st, even if there is a deal.

As I also keep saying, that doesn't mean I have to admit this was a good decision, nor do I have to admit that trying to stop Brexit was a fundamentally anti democratic thing to do.  That would only be the case if for example the army was used to try to stop Brexit, or fraudulent fake ballots, or something like that.

[Nick]

I've never claimed that leave voters are antidemocratic for voting leave.  However I think it's antidemocratic to try to claim that those who don't agree with you are against democracy itself.

Disagreement isn't anti-democratic. Trying to stop a democratic process by nefarious means however is. 

[Nick]

In this case, for sure it would be democratically proven that @Thomas and @cromwell and @Nick are correct. 

You're not taking into account the Once in a lifetime speech by DC where he stated that over 30 times. I think it was pretty clear that it was a once in a lifetime vote.

[DeppityDawg]

It's also important that everyone speaks out when loud voices seek to disrupt the democratic process by claiming that people arguing for something that they disagree with are per definition antidemocratic, purely because they are saying something that you don't like.

[Thomas]

I've never claimed that leave voters are antidemocratic for voting leave.

you couldnt because leave won. End of story.