Now Dominic has thrown a strop

[Sheepy]

https://us.yahoo.com/news/brexit-trade-deal-may-not-144526988.html
LOL

[johnofgwent]

None of which answers the question.

Which part of our legal system does Brussels now control?

Well this is the whole point. Until dec 31st we are still required under the arrangements agreed by that treacherous bitch May to hold sacred the words that pontificate out of the five president's arses on pain of sanction from the european court of Justice. Not the EHCR, the ECJ. They are not the same, and their grip on the UK's testicles comes from two very different treaties.
THIS was the Law society's take on the issue in Feb 2020, when we had already "left" the EU but were still in its clutches
https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/brexit/what-is-the-european-court-of-justice-and-why-does-it-matter
The Remain Lobby insist we continue to submit to the ECJ and continue to write their demands into our own laws
They can F@@@ right off.
The whole point of leaving was to give back to the 650 people we send to westminnster the right to say "I say chaps, the cheese eating surrender monkeys have come up with a jolly wheeze here, I think we ought to bring a bill of our own up to do something like it" or "I say chaps, those shotheads have sold their people down the river with their latest little scam, thank god we gan give them the churchillian fingers"
I have no problem with The United Kingdom's Westminster Parliament declaring that they wish to bring into law a measure copying European legislation which they are prepared to put in an election manifesto and plead for my vote to bring into being.
I have every type of problem with our slavishly impementing what twenty odd scumbags none of whom I had the chance to vote for or against - who can't even agree to have a single president but require five FFS - demand be done in the name of ther federation

[johnofgwent]

He was never  popular as a PM  he was just the only one who offered what was popular .

I don't know SW
SOMETHING happenned in the weeks after Cameon ran away from his commitment to turn Boris from a "get things done" man to an "I am not that man" man.
And the United Kingdom paid a heavy price for that in four years of wasted time, mendcity, obfuuscation, and outright treachery.

[Thomas]

It would be nothing at all to do with me - the party I voted for lost the recent elections, so anything that is done at the moment is not in my name or with my approval. 

If you hadnt whinged and whined relentlessly about democracy while cheering on the likes of starmer and the rest in the commons trying their best to overturn what people voted for , we might be in a better place today and peoples attitudes on either side might not be as hardened.

..but you didnt  , and here we predictably are. You enabled boris johnsons election as much as an tory voter.

It's also worth keeping in mind that as we 've discussed before, you seem to think that hardline Brexit is essential to convince Scotland to vote for independence - you want the English economy to be wrecked in order to get a yes vote in Scotland, so your position is clear there.

Brexit is all my fault now?

Im sitting in an underground bunker on the east side of loch lomond javert working with the rest of the scottish secret service to use my mind control over the gullible english voters on this obscure political forum to make them vote brexit.?

That old chestnut again? 

Javert i told you this before mate , you are fast becoming  a figure of absolute ridicule with the crackers you keep coming out with.

I have stated my stance openly many a time , you know what that stance is , and im not going to repeat it.

[Javert]

change the feckin record javert.

Four years on and you are stil talking about polls and the mysterious remain majority that never shows up at election time.

That" large minority" you are waffling about are tory voters , and the tory party dont want to piss them off .

If democracy is thwarted yet again by you and your ilk over whatever latest excuse you can conjur up then i think there will be major problems and unrest.

It would be nothing at all to do with me - the party I voted for lost the recent elections, so anything that is done at the moment is not in my name or with my approval. 

What I can say is that unless there is a no deal Brexit, there will certainly be a  loud minority claiming that Brexit was thwarted, even though no deal was never on the original ballot paper - the vote leave website at the time said that there should be a long period of preparation followed by a carefully negotiated deal, and that article 50 probably wouldn't be triggered for a year or two.  It was only after the referendum that leave supporters in government decided that "leave" meant no deal Brexit.  Well, probably "revealed" would be a better word than "decided" because I'm sure that was their intention all along - they just lied about it in the meantime.

But anyway, whatever way Brexit is playing out now is entirely under the control of hardline Brexit supporters that were voted into power and have had 100% freedom to do whatever they wanted, so whatever Brexit is completed is theirs to own.

It's also worth keeping in mind that as we 've discussed before, you seem to think that hardline Brexit is essential to convince Scotland to vote for independence - you want the English economy to be wrecked in order to get a yes vote in Scotland, so your position is clear there.

[johnofgwent]

possibly john , and another reason might just be wishfull thinking in javerts head.

How many times on these forums has javert and others insinuated this mysterious group of people are going to appear from out of nowhere at some point to stop brexit at some stage and they never show up?

Theres a difference between well thought out reason , hope , clutching at straws and utter delusion , and we are fast approaching the latter with javert.

Its funny when you think about it but boris johnson doing a u turn may just be about javerts final hope .

maybe so thomas, its just that i see so many instances where the pollsters get it SO wrong .....

[Thomas]

I think the explanation here is dead simple.
People say one thing to pollsters (especially if they're paid) and quite another when they're alone with the ballot paper

possibly john , and another reason might just be wishfull thinking in javerts head.

How many times on these forums has javert and others insinuated this mysterious group of people are going to appear from out of nowhere at some point to stop brexit at some stage and they never show up?

Theres a difference between well thought out reason , hope , clutching at straws and utter delusion , and we are fast approaching the latter with javert.

Its funny when you think about it but boris johnson doing a u turn may just be about javerts final hope .

[Sheepy]

If democracy is thwarted yet again by you and your ilk over whatever latest excuse you can conjur up then i think there will be major problems and unrest.

Last resort, We prefer it if the dogs don't get let loose. Pulling down the Westminster party HQ still seems a bit drastic, although plenty are up for it.

[johnofgwent]

Four years on and you are stil talking about polls and the mysterious remain majority that never shows up at election time.

I think the explanation here is dead simple.
People say one thing to pollsters (especially if they're paid) and quite another when they're alone with the ballot paper

[Barry]

The Tories were elected on a "Let's get Brexit done!" ticket with an 80 seat majority.
So they really do need to deliver, or they are toast.

although undoubtedly a fairly large minority would certainly be very angry about it,

I refer the honourable gentleman to my current signature.

17,410,742

[Borchester]

I've also been told off the record, although I can't prove it, that a certain Brexit supporting newspaper refused to publish a poll recently because it showed that 66% of people want to cancel Brexit, and they put an NDA on the polling company.  However there is certainly published polling information showing support in the 60+% for cancelling Brexit, but unfortunately that's not legally possible anymore.

That was me Javie. Ignore it, I was just taking the piss.

[T00ts]

As said before Toots, wild fishing is over anyway. Most nations (except the UK where Boris really seems to have turned into some sort of leftie financial numb nuts) are looking to cut business taxes which is just another form of subsidy. And a common level (ie high) of taxation has always been the EU's ambition and it has gotten nowhere. In fact it is currently the major bone of contention between the Irish Republic and Brussels.

So as far as I am concerned, until Boris returns from Brussels with a lavatory brush up his backside and the look of rather enjoying the experience (like every other PM since John Major), I will assume that Brexit is a done deal

All that explains the sinking feeling that I am experiencing.

[Thomas]

I've also been told off the record, although I can't prove it, that a certain Brexit supporting newspaper refused to publish a poll recently because it showed that 66% of people want to cancel Brexit, and they put an NDA on the polling company.  However there is certainly published polling information showing support in the 60+% for cancelling Brexit, but unfortunately that's not legally possible anymore.

I've also seen polls showing that even more than half of Brexit supporters think Brexit should have been delayed until the pandemic is over.

So actually I'm not convinced that the whole country would go crazy if Brexit was delayed or cancelled, although undoubtedly a fairly large minority would certainly be very angry about it, but in my experience those are generally people who are always angry at everything.  It's a hypothetical discussion anyway as it cannot now be stopped.

change the feckin record javert.

Four years on and you are stil talking about polls and the mysterious remain majority that never shows up at election time.

That" large minority" you are waffling about are tory voters , and the tory party dont want to piss them off .

If democracy is thwarted yet again by you and your ilk over whatever latest excuse you can conjur up then i think there will be major problems and unrest.

[johnofgwent]

But is he still offering Brexit? Or are we about to see a deal offering BRINO. I think that Boris has been dithering because he could not quite bring himself to say "Non, nein or nee" to Europe.
The civil service have not given up, I mean the 90% of them that are pro-EU, not a couple of SpAds that are making a huge gesture by publicly carrying a box.

Well according to the tory graph he may, or may not be ...

[Javert]

Dominic Cummings has left with immediate effect taking his goods and chattels with him. No back exit for him. He left though the front door carrying his big box.

The big news is that Sajid Javid is set to replace him. He happens to be a good friend to the PM's puppeteer - Carrie Symonds - so say. Javid is a remainer I believe and in his days as Chancellor I felt he back pedalled some on some Brexit progress, so where I was quite confident that Cummings would see the Brexit deal over the line I now feel we could be in line for a substantial backing down to the EU.

Someone convince me that I am wrong!

Maybe he didn't see it cumming!

Well firstly, I'm not really convinced that Cummings has really gone - I suspect he will just be carrying on working for Boris from home, as I doubt Boris has the first clue what to do without him.  From what I've heard, in the past Cummings has been "fired" from government jobs, but then seen going back in by the back door a few weeks later, literally.

As regards Brexit - Brexit as far as I know cannot be stopped anymore as the deadline for requesting any further extensions passed long ago.

What I do know is that the border post infrastructure that is supposed to be operational from 1st January is not even close to being ready - most of the sites haven't even got planning permission (even under the special legal process) yet, with 6 weeks to go.  I know this first hand as I was in a meeting with the consultants working for HMRC on it last Thursday.  There is no way on earth this will be fully operational on 1st January, so if there is a no deal or light deal which are really the only 2 options as far as I know, there will certainly either be some level of chaos at these locations, especially in the Southern ones, or the government will simply have open borders on our side and just wave everything through i.e. free movement into the UK but not outwards.  I'm sure that's what you all voted for.

To put in context - such a logistics and customs facility would normally take a year or two to plan and build, and cannot really be done in 6 weeks.

I've also been told off the record, although I can't prove it, that a certain Brexit supporting newspaper refused to publish a poll recently because it showed that 66% of people want to cancel Brexit, and they put an NDA on the polling company.  However there is certainly published polling information showing support in the 60+% for cancelling Brexit, but unfortunately that's not legally possible anymore.

I've also seen polls showing that even more than half of Brexit supporters think Brexit should have been delayed until the pandemic is over.

So actually I'm not convinced that the whole country would go crazy if Brexit was delayed or cancelled, although undoubtedly a fairly large minority would certainly be very angry about it, but in my experience those are generally people who are always angry at everything.  It's a hypothetical discussion anyway as it cannot now be stopped.