All you need

[Sheepy]

I never claimed I did know much.  In any case, since when did "not knowing much" stop any members from pontificating on these forums?

True, but however you look at it, freedom is under assault, and the only way you can stop it is by becoming completely reliant on a vaccine, which even if it works the damage is already done. 

[HDQQ]

You don't know that much then Ducky, apart from the vaccine is your last hope.

I never claimed I did know much.  In any case, since when did "not knowing much" stop any members from pontificating on these forums?

[Sheepy]

Re, the graph. It's generally accepted that a widespread testing has pushed up the number of confirmed cases dramatically but the number of deaths is creeping up too. We don't know how the rapid rise in the new variant will affect the death rate, since that lags behind the case statistics for obvious reasons. Nobody knows yet whether the new variant is more deadly, the same or indeed less deadly than the the previous variant although experts say they have no reason to believe that it's any different in its effects, apart from being much more contagious. Since the vaccines are being given mainly to the over 80's, who have the highest death rate, if the vaccines are effective we should start to see a decline in the daily death rate in proportion to the number of daily cases as the number of those immunised increases. There are about 3 million over 80's in UK and around one million people have been vaccinated, although not all of those are over 80.

You don't know that much then Ducky, apart from the vaccine is your last hope.

[johnofgwent]

Covid 19 is real , its dangerous to those who have underlying health / age problems

What, you mean like 63 year olds with a history of heart valve issues, hypertension and type 2 diabetes? Yeah ok,

[HDQQ]

Re, the graph. It's generally accepted that a widespread testing has pushed up the number of confirmed cases dramatically but the number of deaths is creeping up too. We don't know how the rapid rise in the new variant will affect the death rate, since that lags behind the case statistics for obvious reasons. Nobody knows yet whether the new variant is more deadly, the same or indeed less deadly than the the previous variant although experts say they have no reason to believe that it's any different in its effects, apart from being much more contagious. Since the vaccines are being given mainly to the over 80's, who have the highest death rate, if the vaccines are effective we should start to see a decline in the daily death rate in proportion to the number of daily cases as the number of those immunised increases. There are about 3 million over 80's in UK and around one million people have been vaccinated, although not all of those are over 80.

[johnofgwent]

But it's not the deaths so much as those needing hospital treatment. People are still dying from it however treatments have improved but numbers of beds and hospital staff hasn't. The whole point of slowing the spread for what is still seen as herd immunity, is purely because we can't cope in the NHS.

Let's face it if the virus just rips through there is no number of doctors etc that would be enough. That seems to me to be the real problem and that's something we simply cannot change. It's not helping that the NHS is still insisting on rolling out the vaccines themselves rather than really facilitating volunteers. The NHS is blinkered.

I agree staff numbers are the issue, but as my mate found out personally when admitted because he was having trouble breathing, the staff are well up on what needs doing and NOBODY in the area he was in got taken away to ICU. Which starkly contrasts with the information being put out at the start of the pox last year.

Even the lying scum BBC were forced to admit the hospital admissions in recent months have been different.


It would be good to get some hard numbers on the percentage of patients who tested positive who had no need for hospitalisation but I feel that would destroy the fear and panic that the "government", particularly the tossers in wales, need to be hyped in the population.


"herd immunity" won't help much if the noises I am hearing are accurate/ I doubt my immunity will last much past march...

[Thomas]

But it's not the deaths so much as those needing hospital treatment.

Dont agre with you at all.

We were told at the start of the year , the deaths were the issue , which indicates severity of the disease.

Now the deaths have levelled off , ( in my area never been above 0.5% which isnt much worse than seasonal flu) but the testing has increased and so the numbers testing positive has increased as a percentage , its now the numbers testing positive that is the issue?

On top of that , every single years going back as far as i can remember  , we have the same issues at this time of year with people being hospitalised and the nhs being "overwhelmed."

Why is this year any differnet from normal toots?

People are still dying from it

perhaps you can provide figures for who has died of covid 19. I can find figures of those who have died "with" covid 19 , testing posicitve within 28 days , but not those dying directly and only of covid 19.

however treatments have improved but numbers of beds and hospital staff hasn't.

Lack of beds and staff has been a gripe for years long before covid.

( media headlines about nhs england in guardian over last 8 years)



Further , it what little staff is available have been told to isolate off work when ill , what do we expect? The staff can't simultaneously be at work dealing with the ususal winter rush and isolating at the same time.?

The whole point of slowing the spread for what is still seen as herd immunity, is purely because we can't cope in the NHS.

Im aware of that toots.

[T00ts]

55 deaths john in my area with covid 19 on the death certificate up to 13th september out of a population of 94 thousand in the local area.

In laws area , 9 deaths with covid 19 on death certificate up to end november out of a population of 21 thousand in their local area.

Both government statistics from government web sites , and in both cases , death rate for those dying WITH covid 19 rather than OF covid 19 is way less than 0.5 %

All perspective is lost as i keep saying , and the media hysteria and political hysteria over this is incredible.

Covid 19 is real , its dangerous to those who have underlying health / age problems , but the figures being bandied about lack all context and reason.

But it's not the deaths so much as those needing hospital treatment. People are still dying from it however treatments have improved but numbers of beds and hospital staff hasn't. The whole point of slowing the spread for what is still seen as herd immunity, is purely because we can't cope in the NHS.

Let's face it if the virus just rips through there is no number of doctors etc that would be enough. That seems to me to be the real problem and that's something we simply cannot change. It's not helping that the NHS is still insisting on rolling out the vaccines themselves rather than really facilitating volunteers. The NHS is blinkered.

[Thomas]

Well, there is one further thing you need to know

Every time the BBC report deaths from COVID, they put up a little graphic that states the number cited is the total number of deaths from ANY REASON WHATSOEVER within 28 days of having received a positive diagnosis

Which means I will die of COVID if I put the car off the road and plunge into the river on USK thanks to the black ice on Caerleon Rd any time this week or next.


And I was of course an unreported case in November 2019. Because there were no tests when our company driver gave me and a dozen others a wierd flu like thing a week before he was hospitalised with pneumonia, ending his career, after ferrying six of our Chinese owners around Wales after they flew first to Germany, then Italy, then Wales, from the Chinese Parent company HQ just over the border from Wuhan ....

55 deaths john in my area with covid 19 on the death certificate up to 13th september out of a population of 94 thousand in the local area.

In laws area , 9 deaths with covid 19 on death certificate up to end november out of a population of 21 thousand in their local area.

Both government statistics from government web sites , and in both cases , death rate for those dying WITH covid 19 rather than OF covid 19 is way less than 0.5 %

All perspective is lost as i keep saying , and the media hysteria and political hysteria over this is incredible.

Covid 19 is real , its dangerous to those who have underlying health / age problems , but the figures being bandied about lack all context and reason.

[johnofgwent]

Well, there is one further thing you need to know

Every time the BBC report deaths from COVID, they put up a little graphic that states the number cited is the total number of deaths from ANY REASON WHATSOEVER within 28 days of having received a positive diagnosis

Which means I will die of COVID if I put the car off the road and plunge into the river on USK thanks to the black ice on Caerleon Rd any time this week or next.


And I was of course an unreported case in November 2019. Because there were no tests when our company driver gave me and a dozen others a wierd flu like thing a week before he was hospitalised with pneumonia, ending his career, after ferrying six of our Chinese owners around Wales after they flew first to Germany, then Italy, then Wales, from the Chinese Parent company HQ just over the border from Wuhan ....

[Nick]

The graph below tells you all you need to know, cases are going through the roof because testing is going through the roof, deaths are not. And if I hadn't gone for a test I would have been an unreported case.