Could Alex Salmond bring down Nicola Sturgeon?

[Thomas]

Iain Macwhirter: Like a fish, Scotland's Crown Office is rotting from the head down

FOURTEEN million, £20 million, £24 million – the eye-watering sum in damages being awarded to the administrators wrongly prosecuted for fraud over the Rangers bankruptcy, seems to grow larger by the day.
It is reliably reported that the two men, Paul Clark and David Whitehouse, have already banked £10m apiece. That's £10m! Each.
When various legal fees are included the bill is now bumping against £24m and could rise still further.
But that is not all.
The Lord Advocate himself, James Wolffe QC, will shortly make a public apology to the two men for having pursued a "malicious prosecution" against them "without probable cause".
"Malicious", note. Not just mistaken in law, or based on unreliable evidence, but acting with malice: with the intention of personally injuring two innocent citizens.
Forget reputational damage to the Crown Office – this is reputational obliteration.
This is causing a lot of people concern – in and out of the rarified world that is Scots law.

This is such an epic story, you might also wonder why it is not dominating the Scottish and even the UK front pages right now. Admittedly, there has been a lot going on with Covid and Joe Biden, but this is a scandal without precedent.
It suggests that Scotland's prosecution service is rotting, like a fish, from the head down.

Scandals continue to grow regarding scotlands prosecution service , demands lord wolfe resign and the scottish prosecution service dealt with root and branch.

James Wolffe is still the man ultimately in charge of the prosecution service, which pursued the former First Minister, on those sex harassment and attempted rape charges that were thrown out by a female-led jury last March.
What led to that legal fiasco was the "tainted" and "unlawful" findings of the botched civil service disciplinary inquiry conducted under the Permanent Secretary, Leslie Evans.
Ms Evans is another figure still miraculously in post despite having been responsible for losing large amounts of public money.
On behalf of the Scottish Government, she pursued a hopeless case against Salmond in the Court of Session in 2019 which led to the award of "exemplary" costs of £500,000 – paid for by you and me.
Mind you, that is chickenfeed compared with the £20-£24m of taxpayers' money that has been blown by her friends in the Crown Office.

I fear there is a culture of collusion and cover up, and I believe there is an ethical void at the prosecution service. This is intolerable in a democracy. There is ample evidence that the Crown Office is not fit for purpose and it's time for the legal establishment and Holyrood to wake up and act to arrest this decay before it becomes irreversible.

https://archive.is/0GLEI

[Thomas]

It's an unnecessary assault, and I would never do that to anyone, would you?

chivvying someone out the way?

Yep i have done it plenty of times .

So whatever your perception is  , the judge  , 8 women and five men jurors , ( jury normally 15 but reduced down to 13 )whose opinion count more than anything we say , disagreed it was an "unnescessary assault " ( with a sexual implication) and acquitted him.

12 not guilty verdicts , 1 not proven , and the other withdrawn.

[Barry]

One of the charges against hime for example was something as stupid as chivvying a woman up a spiral staircase and telling her to hurry up by pushing her on the small of the back. If thats a sexual assault , all men must be guilty of similar every day.

It's an unnecessary assault, and I would never do that to anyone, would you?

[cromwell]

justice "systems" shouldnt that be cromwell?

I said Isles so ner!

[johnofgwent]

Hmmm john I have more faith in the justice system  on these isles than politicos

I wish I did.


OK so, seeing as I was in fact unaware (i mean, its Scotland not Wales, and we have our own shite to deal with) Salmand had actually had his day in court .. what of the fact he was acquitted.  Why the whinge at the Procurator Fiscal ? South of the border there are countless cases where the head of the CPS acted, or failed to act, and the guilty went free or the innocent were persecuted. Nobody removes judges or lawyers for this, they have their cushy number sorted...


And apparently Nicola had a few cosy chats with the guy prior to his trial ? what of it. Again, who cares about "ministerial codes"

[Thomas]

Hmmm john I have more faith in the justice system  on these isles than politicos

justice "systems" shouldnt that be cromwell?

[Thomas]

Some good points Tommy, although I am inclined to feel that, come An latha, the Pàrlamaid na h-Alba will soon want to find somewhere to pension off its less successful specimens. I once had a manager who was a peer. Nice lad but we still treated him like shit. Today's lords are life baronets with almost zero power and are treated accordingly.

Doubt it borkie.

Our tradition is to have the three estaites in a unicarmel parliament. I dont think any political party in scotland , possibly excepting the tories  , support a second chamber.

Palmerston and Parnell's problem were nigh on contemporaries. But Palmerston would have shagged a telegraph pole if it had a skirt on and was cheered to the echo by the electorate because he was such a jolly soul. Parnell could have obliged Mrs O'Shea, Mr O'Shea and the O'Shea's cat in Parliament Square had he not been such a dreary bastard that the electorate were desperate to see him get a kicking.

The same with the Irish Uprising. Home Rule had been granted in 1914 and all the Micks had to do was wait a few years for the war to end. But Paddy Peas wanted his day in the sun and led a lot of good men to their deaths as a result. When he was shot in 1916 there were probably a few of his Fenian comrades who must have thought, sod it, we wanted to do that.

sure but the point is the current events in scotland have historical precedence , and not too far back either , and when the irish party was crushed , irish independence didnt disappear is my point , another party sinn fein , took their place.

There seems to be this weird belief in england that scottish indy is all the work of salmond and sturgeon , and get rid of them , westminster gets rid of its scottish problem.Cause and effect seems to be a difficult idea for many to grasp , and even in your own country for example , im pretty sure nigel farage , contrary to what people say , didnt brainwash 55% of england into voting for brexit. The euroscepticism was already there , as scot indy support is already thriving in scotland pre sturgeon and salmond.

But the important thing is that Scotland presents a united front against the Sassenach Arrogance.

Not really borkie. We scots get more pleasure out of fighting among our selves than we do with you.

I think a frenchman once famously remarked how the scots are very peaceable abroad , and friendly , but extremely warlike at home.

I think wee Nick is having a bit of a sweat at the minute , but we will see what we will see.

[cromwell]

I suppose it shows the degree to which I am utterly piss bored by all rantings of goings on north of Dunbar that i was totally unaware Salmand had been actually dragged into court, much less acquitted. How much did he have to splash out in bribes to make that happen i wonder ...

Hmmm john I have more faith in the justice system  on these isles than politicos

[johnofgwent]

I suppose it shows the degree to which I am utterly piss bored by all rantings of goings on north of Dunbar that i was totally unaware Salmand had been actually dragged into court, much less acquitted. How much did he have to splash out in bribes to make that happen i wonder ...

[Borchester]

all true borkie , except the united front thing.

This has all played out before in recent history in a certain former uk country a century ago as i once said. Fall from grace of a certain major irish indy politicalfigure due to sexual misconduct , the old irish national party losing votes , the brit nats in westmisnter laughing and thinking ah well , we have saw off ireland leaving the uk.

What happened?

Not long after , a new more determined irish national party took power , sinn fein , and ireland left the uk.

I know you say you dont care about scottish politics. Completely  understandbale , it your country didint have such a say over mine , i similarly wouldnt be on forums like this or really giving a feck about the bore fest that is english two party politics.

I thought our parliament in scotland was bad , until i looked at yours in london , and never have i seen such a large chamber as the commons full of such mediocre benchwarming clowns  , topped with the upper chamber , the second largest legislature in the world , which is in short nothing more than care home for elderly benchwarmers who have served their time in the lower chamber and all their cronies.

You can see why clowns like johnson and starmer havce risen to power in such a system.

The sad fact is why they have such power over the rest of us.

Some good points Tommy, although I am inclined to feel that, come An latha, the Pàrlamaid na h-Alba will soon want to find somewhere to pension off its less successful specimens. I once had a manager who was a peer. Nice lad but we still treated him like shit. Today's lords are life baronets with almost zero power and are treated accordingly.


Palmerston and Parnell's problem were nigh on contemporaries. But Palmerston would have shagged a telegraph pole if it had a skirt on and was cheered to the echo by the electorate because he was such a jolly soul. Parnell could have obliged Mrs O'Shea, Mr O'Shea and the O'Shea's cat in Parliament Square had he not been such a dreary bastard that the electorate were desperate to see him get a kicking.

The same with the Irish Uprising. Home Rule had been granted in 1914 and all the Micks had to do was wait a few years for the war to end. But Paddy Peas wanted his day in the sun and led a lot of good men to their deaths as a result. When he was shot in 1916 there were probably a few of his Fenian comrades who must have thought, sod it, we wanted to do that.

But the important thing is that Scotland presents a united front against the Sassenach Arrogance.  Because now that Brexit is over and the Peking Pox is petering out, this Scottish independence business looks to be the only game in town

[Thomas]

No I wasn't picking you up it was not the personal you but as a general definition that he is innocent and nobody can alter that.

sure , but the fact remains how did it get to court ?

Either it was the procurator fiscal not doing his job properly , or an attempted stitch up , and then the question i by whom?

It will all come out in the wash im sure.

[Thomas]

I know sod all about Scottish politics, but that won't stop me chucking in my tuppenneth.

I doubt that many folk south of the border care one way or another about Scottish independence. If the Scots rise up as one man and his hen and say fook you ya English bastards then the Westminster government will probably think yeah well, ok, but you have to keep the Scottish Tory party, who are all remainers anyway.

But the main point is that the SNP has to maintain a united front. If it settles down to one of those civil wars so beloved by our Caledonian chums then Boris will just sit back and concede sod all

all true borkie , except the united front thing.

This has all played out before in recent history in a certain former uk country a century ago as i once said. Fall from grace of a certain major irish indy politicalfigure due to sexual misconduct , the old irish national party losing votes , the brit nats in westmisnter laughing and thinking ah well , we have saw off ireland leaving the uk.

What happened?

Not long after , a new more determined irish national party took power , sinn fein , and ireland left the uk.

I know you say you dont care about scottish politics. Completely  understandbale , it your country didint have such a say over mine , i similarly wouldnt be on forums like this or really giving a feck about the bore fest that is english two party politics.

I thought our parliament in scotland was bad , until i looked at yours in london , and never have i seen such a large chamber as the commons full of such mediocre benchwarming clowns  , topped with the upper chamber , the second largest legislature in the world , which is in short nothing more than care home for elderly benchwarmers who have served their time in the lower chamber and all their cronies.

You can see why clowns like johnson and starmer havce risen to power in such a system.

The sad fact is why they have such power over the rest of us.

[Borchester]

Dont agree in the slightest john.

Put aside your personal dislike for alec salmond and his politics , we have a situation here where a guy was taken to court on serious charges of sexual misconduct and acquitted on every one of them. Someone somewhere has tried to stitch salmond up big time , and spectacularly failed  , either because..

1. The man hadnt actually done anything

2. The procurator fiscal and authoirites hadnt done their jobs properly.

We need to know what has went on here. The whole issue has brought the entire scottish legal system into severe disrepute.

I personally am going right off sturgeon big time. She seems to want to spend her day basking in the adoration of feckin guardian reading liberals , rather than fighting for what she was elected to do...attain scottish indy.

This entire affair has just soured things further for me.

What i will say though is those who are hoping this brings strugeon and the snp down , and the jocks then start behaving themselves and go back to being good little british nationals...think again.

There are already plans underway for another indy party to contest the list seats in may. Remember the cause and effect situation we have discussed before.

Contrary to what people in england seem to think that the scots were good little brit nats before salmond and sturgeon stirred them up , we werent.

The snp rise to power is a result of the scottish peoples demand for independence , not the other way around. If sturgeon does go , and the snp fall as a result , another indy party will merely take their place.

There is no going back to voting british nationalist parties like labour for scotland.

I know sod all about Scottish politics, but that won't stop me chucking in my tuppenneth.

I doubt that many folk south of the border care one way or another about Scottish independence. If the Scots rise up as one man and his hen and say fook you ya English bastards then the Westminster government will probably think yeah well, ok, but you have to keep the Scottish Tory party, who are all remainers anyway.

But the main point is that the SNP has to maintain a united front. If it settles down to one of those civil wars so beloved by our Caledonian chums then Boris will just sit back and concede sod all

[cromwell]

Im not sure you are picking me up here correctly. Change what?

The point im making isnt  the fact i doubt his innocence , its the fact that  of 13 sexual assault charges , he was cleared of all wrongdoing and on the face of it  , it looks like someone tried to stitch him up.

One of the charges against hime for example was something as stupid as chivvying a woman up a spiral staircase and telling her to hurry up by pushing her on the small of the back. If thats a sexual assault , all men must be guilty of similar every day.

Without going back over all the story cromwell , it looks like a severe case of  attempted misjsutice , a waste of taxpayers money , and attempt to stitch up a political figure. The guy could have spent the rest of his life in prison for something he didnt do , and as someone who feels strongly about miscarriages of justice and stuff like this , as im sure you do , i find the whole thing repugnant , not to mention the damage falsified claims and court cases do to real sexual assault trials.

I want  to find out whose behind it all and why , and one way or the other , we will.

No I wasn't picking you up it was not the personal you but as a general definition that he is innocent and nobody can alter that.

[Thomas]

Current seat projection for scottish parliamentary elections. Labours slide down the  amount of seats continues by the looks of it , going from 56 seats and party of governance in 1999 , 50 seats 2003 , 46 seats in 2007 and losing control of holyrood , 37 in 2011 , 24 in 2016 , to now projected to be 20 in 2021.


Ballot Box Scotland

@BallotBoxScot
·
15 Jan
New polling and projection analysis, for ComRes, 8th-13th of January 2021

Holyrood seats projection:
SNP ~ 71
Labour ~ 20
Conservative ~ 19
Green ~ 11
Lib Dem ~ 8

http://ballotbox.scot/comres-january-2021


Keir starmer the blairite looks about to take labour to a new low in scotland. Fingers crossed.