Corbyn and Nato!

[Churchill]

You need help.

[papasmurf]

No proof just your biased ingrained imagination again.

Plenty of proof, the long list of dead.

[Churchill]

They are extreme right wing, proven by their words and deeds. Tory is derived from tóraidhe meaning  brigand, robber, or outlaw.

No proof just your biased ingrained imagination again. I am more concerned about the unelected violent fascists thugs of the far left who pose a real threat to our democracy year in year out for over four decades

[papasmurf]

Is that it :roll:



You have either led a very sheltered life or easily swayed and brainwashed by others, they are not right wing they just happen to have different political views to you, I take it you do actually understand the meaning of the word Conservative ?

They are extreme right wing, proven by their words and deeds. Tory is derived from tóraidhe meaning  brigand, robber, or outlaw.

[Sampanviking]

I know this is supposed to be specifically about Corbyn vis a vis NATO, but I think that rather misses the more obvious conversation to have about the organisation.



Once again we have an argument couched in the same old absolutist terms.



It does worry me that the narrative seems to be "support the status quo without question or otherwise you are a unilateral disarmer"



The truth is that the "mission" and the "Vehicle" used to udertake it, are not indivisible.



The mission is the collective self defense of member countries and the original mission was more specifically the defence of Western Europe from the Soviet Union.



Clearly, there is nothing wrong with the principle of Collective Self Defense, but questions should be asked as to whether this is still the mission or indeed NATO is the organisation best placed to carry it out.

The Soviet Union collapsed thirty years ago and with it the reason for NATO to exist. Since then it has been an organisation struggling to justify its existence and has found itself undertaking blatant neo liberal intervention adventurism, far from the borders of any of its members.

Today it is clearly desperate to identify a threat to latch onto and this seems to be taking it into the realms of powers with simply the potential to pose a threat, even if there is no hostile posture. This is obviously dangerous as it is a classic definition of the self fulfilling prophecy.



On top of that there is the issue of the organisation itself, which I see as a Gravy Train, very similar to the EU, where the third rate and washed up part hack yes men get sent for their golden handshake at the end of their political careers.



So I think there is much to reform in the Organisation itself and much vigilance required over the creeping mission over reach that now seems endemic within its guiding thought.

[Churchill]

Is that it :roll:



You have either led a very sheltered life or easily swayed and brainwashed by others, they are not right wing they just happen to have different political views to you, I take it you do actually understand the meaning of the word Conservative ?

[papasmurf]

Who do you mean and why?

Iain Duncan Smith, Esther McVey, Jacob Rees Mogg, Dominic Raab, Jeremy Hunt, just a sample. Basically because they are nasty.

[Churchill]

Who do you mean and why?

[papasmurf]

Corbyn's right hand man McDonnell describes himself as a Marxist, as they say birds of a feather flock together

What about the extreme right Tories?

[Churchill]

He has always refused to admit that he is a Marxist when asked directly he does not like answering direct questions with direct answers, however IMO I strongly suspect that he his but may not be a card carrying member.



He is however very far left of the political spectrum and supports Marxist ideology as does Gerry Adams who is friendly with Corbyn, perhaps that is why Corbyn has much in common with members of the Irish Republican Movement, the Official IRA were lead by Marxists who wanted to form a Workers Party to rule in the South and North of Ireland.



The Provisional IRA broke away from them because they did not think it could be achieved.    



Corbyn's right hand man McDonnell describes himself as a Marxist, as they say birds of a feather flock together

[papasmurf]

He admitted being an admirer of Marx in the leadership contest.

That is NOT evidence of being a "fully paid up member."

[johnofgwent]

Evidence please, (seriously.)

Ah yes, that reminds me  did YOU put the link up that I asked for a few weeks back ....



Thought not ...



So I shall show you the same courtesy.



For the rest on here  who may wonder  ...



He admitted being an admirer of Marx in the leadership contest. There are olamenty of places carrying that, but none you 'recognise' unless it suits you.



For the rest of the planet those who have read the works of the nan (Marx, I mean, not steptoe) will quite quickly see I am correct in my assertion.



That he is a Republican and (like several past ministers and prime ministers) thus barred from being a member of the privy council and thus unfit to be her britannic majesty's prime minister is also well known heavily commented on and admitted by him.



Blair was too, as many know.

[DeppityDawg]

Can anyone really imagine this inadequate and arrogant little man heading up a meeting at Cobra? I can't and the prospect of Corbyn as PM fills me with trepidation both economically and in terms of national security.

Sorry Major but we are increasingly living in a banal world where "terrorists" arent actually terrorists, where minorities overrule majorities, where sentences mean nothing and where being a "victim" of some form of state or society "oppression" is about as fashionable as it gets. There are plenty of "woke" people who will vote for Corbyn precisely because of his barely concealed hatred of the Western World and it's values. Ironically, neither he nor many of them have the remotest idea what life is really like outside the privileged bubble which they've grown up and become complacent in.



20 years ago the thought of someone like him ever becoming PM would have been laughed at. That we've reached the situation where it is actually possible marks the point where the decline and fall of the Western world is now inevitable. Its just a matter of time.

[papasmurf]

Well, he's a fully paid up marxist

Evidence please, (seriously.)

[johnofgwent]

Well, he's a fully paid up marxist and admirer and supporter of numerous causes who wish to see this country destroyed.



As such, I'm not remotely surprised he wishes an organisation developed to mutually defend the western world against the organisation whose current president suffers no downside from murdering his political opponents in the UK with toxic nuclear compounds did not come about......