political prisoners in the eu.

[cromwell]

Is it any of the EU's business? As I see it, people in the Commission might feel concerned, but it's an internal affair like the UK and Scotland.   


However, if it involved two or more EU states (or even a non-EU and an EU state), the the EU might offer mediation and get involved. But until then surely it's in asunto interno español...

But not NI apparently

[patman post]

Amazing how blind the eu is to this whole affair

Is it any of the EU's business? As I see it, people in the Commission might feel concerned, but it's an internal affair like the UK and Scotland.   


However, if it involved two or more EU states (or even a non-EU and an EU state), the the EU might offer mediation and get involved. But until then surely it's in asunto interno español...

[cromwell]

The nine political prisoners have been released today.
https://english.elpais.com/spain/catalonia/2021-06-23/jailed-catalan-separatists-released-from-prison-following-pardons.html
The wanted people who fled to EU countries and Scotland are not included in the pardon.

Amazing how blind the eu is to this whole affair

[Barry]

The nine political prisoners have been released today.
https://english.elpais.com/spain/catalonia/2021-06-23/jailed-catalan-separatists-released-from-prison-following-pardons.html
The wanted people who fled to EU countries and Scotland are not included in the pardon.

[Barry]

https://english.elpais.com/politics/catalonia_independence/2021-05-31/pardons-for-jailed-catalan-independence-leaders-will-be-fast-limited-and-reversible.html

The Spanish Cabinet is expected to approve the measure at the end of June or early July. According to government sources, the separatists will return to jail if they break the law and will remain barred from public office

They know this will never and, so there is little point in keeping them locked up. They have been replaced by other separatists.

[Barry]

Catalonia's newly elected premier, Pere Aragonès of the Catalan Republican Left (ERC), took the oath of office on Monday evening with a pledge to work toward "amnesty" for the jailed leaders of the 2017 breakaway bid as well as to make "self-determination inevitable" for the north-eastern Spanish region.

It's still not over. The populists will eventually have their way.

[Sheepy]

In Cataluna yesterday the election gave a slight overall majority to the 3 independence parties.
PSOE did very well with 33 seats, equal largest party but a coalition of the independence parties would have an overall majority.
PP and Ciudadanos were almost annihilated, even below VOX.

So the independence arguments will continue, just like Scotland.

The political prisoners remain locked up.

Of course, they will Barry however much they try and shut them down.

[Barry]

In Cataluna yesterday the election gave a slight overall majority to the 3 independence parties.
PSOE did very well with 33 seats, equal largest party but a coalition of the independence parties would have an overall majority.
PP and Ciudadanos were almost annihilated, even below VOX.

So the independence arguments will continue, just like Scotland.

The political prisoners remain locked up.

[Barry]

This makes me wonder why the immunity was created in the first place.

Obviously not to prevent political prosecutions and detentions.



https://elpais.com/elpais/2020/01/17/inenglish/1579255362_267811.html">//https://elpais.com/elpais/2020/01/17/inenglish/1579255362_267811.html



I hope the MEPs vote against the removal, for the sake of the Catalan people who want independence.

[Barry]

Although in a similar vein, Oriol Junqueras has been sent to prison despite having EU Parliament immunity.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/12/19/inenglish/1576744353_675532.html">//https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/12/19/inenglish/1576744353_675532.html

This looks like something of a victory for him, as he ought to be freed.



Junqueras won a seat in the European Parliament in the May 26 vote, but was unable to be sworn in because he was in preventive custody in Soto del Real prison in Madrid for his role in the 2017 Catalan independence drive. In October, the Spanish Supreme Court found the ERC leader guilty of sedition and misuse of public funds, and sentenced him to 13 years in prison.



Junqueras won a seat in the European Parliament in the May 26 vote, but was unable to be sworn in



But according to the CJEU, Junqueras was protected by parliamentary immunity the moment he was elected in May. In its ruling, the CJEU said that if the Spanish courts "consider it necessary to maintain the measure of provisional prison" against Junqueras it must request "at the earliest opportunity" that the European Parliament suspend his immunity.

[Barry]

The persecution goes on:



Catalan premier Quim Torra was today found guilty by the Catalan Regional High Court of disobedience for failing to remove banners supporting jailed independence leaders from public buildings during an election campaign. Torra has been banned from public office for 18 months and will have to pay a fine of €30,000 and the legal costs of the trial. He will not, however, be removed from his position until an appeal has been heard by Spain's Supreme Court and a definitive ruling has been issued.

[Barry]

Even Amnesty International are getting involved now:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/11/spain-conviction-for-sedition-of-jordi-sanchez-and-jordi-cuixart-threatens-rights-to-freedom-of-expression-and-peaceful-assembly/">//https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/11/spain-conviction-for-sedition-of-jordi-sanchez-and-jordi-cuixart-threatens-rights-to-freedom-of-expression-and-peaceful-assembly/

[size=150]Spain's conviction for sedition of Jordi Sànchez and Jordi Cuixart threatens rights to freedom of expression and peaceful assembly[/size]

[Baron von Lotsov]

Well the last years figures i saw were 2017/18 , where the uk had 1.2% gdp growth , scotland had 1.3% gdp growth , yet our independent neighbour across the ater , the republic of ireland, had 7.2 % gdp growth.

OK, that sounds about right. I think my Google figure was the year before. Brexit is caning growth!



Ireland is recovering from a huge slump I think.

Its amazing what you can do with your economy when you are independent of the shackles of westminster.

Absolutely, since Westminster is full of ill-educated idiots who do not understand the very basics of economics.

Bearing in mind even with devolution , the scotish government only controls a small fraction of economic levers. Despite that  , we have manged to outperform your country marginally , and could do so much better with independence.



Scottish gdp per head of population is £2000 more than englands , not to mention having tourism revenue , oil, gas, seafood landings , farmland , and exports in general greater perhead than your country.



Scotland is nearly 10% of uk GDP without the oil , and with the oil accounts for nearly 37% of uk gdp with only 8.9 % of the population.



We need independence fast.



Get real yourself baron .You are so far to the right you think the tories in england are socialists. ::

I do indeed think the Tories are arch socialists. They mirror Labour so closely that you'd think they were one of the same party, like partners in crime, kind of thing.



So lets look at it from the other end. Lets look at the country and the time where huge growth was achieved and see how it was done. I started a thread on it here. https://politicalforums.uk/pol/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87">https://politicalforums.uk/pol/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87



Scotland needs to have a word with Zhu Rongji

Thank you.



Thats the point of scottish indy , to have normal political parties voters can choose from , instead at the minute we have one scottish party , the greens , and a host of english controlled parties acting against our interests.



I would love to see a scottish centre right party emerge in an indy scotland . At the minute  , we have the english conservative party and their scottish lackeys.

Yep, I would feel the same way if i were living in Scotland. The Greens are our enemy. If you let the Greens into Scotland they will destroy your industry. One thing the Scottish are well known for is their engineering, and generally speaking that relates to industry and production, and that will all be history if you let the Greens in. They can't organise a pissup in a brewery.  Anyway, do read the story of Zhu Rongji sometime. He was a man with a vision and a very technical mind, and knew exactly what he was doing. It was radical but it has resulted in the country turning into a superpower. It's not magic, its maths!

[Javert]

So anyone who works is essentially working class is what you mean?



The point is baron , the term is a vague meaningless irrelevance in the modern world .

You could tell that to the guy who was shouting "middle class c***" at all the people getting onto coaches at the M6 services last Saturday.



In my experience there is definitely a lot of people who define their culture and identity as working class, regardless whether it really means what it used to.

[Thomas]

The ones who empty the bins and dig the road up etc. Hard graft jobs where no thinking is required. A different name perhaps but same thing!!!

So anyone who works is essentially working class is what you mean?



The point is baron , the term is a vague meaningless irrelevance in the modern world .

I'm looking now.



0.5% GDP growth in the last quarter. Latest available for the entire nation of Blighty is 1.8%, so hardly a Rizzla paper between them.



Same picture over the years. Scotland is slightly above UK in GDP per capita but would be slightly below without the oil.



https://fraserofallander.org/scottish-e">https://fraserofallander.org/scottish-e ... etter-off/



2% year is not bad in my book. Inflation is about the same so it is more flat-lining or going nowhere fast. Same for UK. Science and technology should create real GDP per capita growth, normally considered to be about 2% per hear. That's a a kind of long-term average of the past.

Well the last years figures i saw were 2017/18 , where the uk had 1.2% gdp growth , scotland had 1.3% gdp growth , yet our independent neighbour across the ater , the republic of ireland, had 7.2 % gdp growth.



Its amazing what you can do with your economy when you are independent of the shackles of westminster. Bearing in mind even with devolution , the scotish government only controls a small fraction of economic levers. Despite that  , we have manged to outperform your country marginally , and could do so much better with independence.



Scottish gdp per head of population is £2000 more than englands , not to mention having tourism revenue , oil, gas, seafood landings , farmland , and exports in general greater perhead than your country.



Scotland is nearly 10% of uk GDP without the oil , and with the oil accounts for nearly 37% of uk gdp with only 8.9 % of the population.



We need independence fast.

Yes but get real. SNP are heavy duty socialists and socialism destroys economies. We have seen it the world over. Of course you could compare to the UK but its the same thing, they are socialist as well, and that includes the Tory Party, except the big difference is Labour admit to socialism where Tories just do it and do not talk about it much. They are screwing with what we are allowed to eat now. That's heavy duty socialism.

Get real yourself baron .You are so far to the right you think the tories in england are socialists. ::

Well good luck with that. I suppose the Americans felt the same way in their war of independence. You need a capitalist Scottish party really and truly, but capitalism does not sell any more.

Thank you.



Thats the point of scottish indy , to have normal political parties voters can choose from , instead at the minute we have one scottish party , the greens , and a host of english controlled parties acting against our interests.



I would love to see a scottish centre right party emerge in an indy scotland . At the minute  , we have the english conservative party and their scottish lackeys.