Common folk

[Baron von Lotsov]

Oh dear mate, talk about sticking both feet in your gob. Women do, do quantum mechanics. I really think you should have checked your facts first.

Yeah coarse they do and this is why all the inventions come from blokes. You do realise It's a subject that I'm interested in and I do track back from invention to find out who invented it, and I never ever find it is a woman, bar the odd one in perhaps 500. Then you read the BBC and you get given the same damn example every time, because of course these examples are so incredibly rare. I see someone else on this thread do that, and think they are being smart. Well they have been conned by the media. You have to have an interest in it to know what is going on in the field. Sure you probably get women working down at CERN logging data from experiments, just as back in the old days a lady would be the one who was secretary to the boss of a major company. They work as the assistant, not the one who actually does what we pay the research money for. Actually it is exactly the people who manage to achieve progress that I'm interested in as i like to see how each country is doing in science. I was looking last night in fact, and one major breakthrough in about 2009 I think it was, where it was two American blokes. I use websites that give you all the details on the authors of papers. I never see women involved in the advanced stuff except there was one exception, but she was working as a large team. I can't think of any more offhand in recent years.

[Churchill]

Yes , it was just an example I could have used Boston USA, :roll:

[papasmurf]

Yes if I was a trained Nurse or Doctor and offered a job in either Bolton or Brisbane its a no brainer

Really?



https://7news.com.au/news/severe-weather/brisbane-hail-storm-brings-no-respite-from-residents-battling-queensland-bushfires-c-561591">https://7news.com.au/news/severe-weathe ... s-c-561591">https://7news.com.au/news/severe-weather/brisbane-hail-storm-brings-no-respite-from-residents-battling-queensland-bushfires-c-561591

[Churchill]

:hattip Good post Churchill.



Part of the problem regarding qualifications is that medical training (nursing, medical, surgical) in the UK is recognised throughout the world as being world class. Any British qualified nurse or doctor can get a job virtually anywhere in the world with top local pay.This is just one reason why so many foreign medics join the NHS to get UK experience; it certainly isn't the generous pay!



This means we train them at eye watering cost to the tax payer and lose them abroad before we get sufficient payback on the investment. Of course once they are abroad any repayment of student loans stops so we are doubly stuffed.



Now I don't suggest we try to enforce minimum terms of work for the NHS in return for hundreds of thousands of pounds of training  but we need to find a solution to this problem. Remuneration terms should certainly should be considered as should loyalty bonuses say for example at five and ten years.



I have a nephew who as soon as he completed his training ( 5 years at university, 2 years practical experience FY1, FY2, followed by a further 2 years to qualify as a GP so 9 years in all) he has resigned from the NHS and gone to New Zealand on a much higher salary package. The UK has invested hundreds of thousands and he and NZ benefit.

Yes if I was a trained Nurse or Doctor and offered a job in either Bolton or Brisbane its a no brainer

[Major Sinic]

I know, we see them on the BBC sometimes. They do everything these days, but its just nursing is a big employer when the country is so sick. Women are into PR in a big way, where the blokes just get on with the job, so you see less on the telly because they are often working. The Economist is full of these young women as well. They will tell you they are economics' graduates more than likely, but the information and usefulness content of their speak is zero.

You manage to appear almost normal for days at a time, and then your extreme misogyny kicks into place. You really are quite outrageous in some of your utterances, I have seen extreme autism in effect before but you really take the biscuit, when you really should be taking your meds!

[Major Sinic]

No idea do you know?  I do know there are schemes as you state in place to try and attract both Nurses Teachers, Police Officers, but not as many as we like are going into such professions, they are not that well paid and long anti social hours.



Plus as quick as you recruit them some don't stay the course, others already in place leave, retire, move on or suffer ill health its a never ending cycle



IMHO to many youngsters are leaving our education system lacking the basic skills to be trained in skilled professions, or willing to be trained



When I state our Infrastructure is creaking , by that I mean we are constantly playing catch up due to the sheer numbers of people in the UK, as fast as we can recruit them there are still not enough Teachers, school places for the youngsters, not enough Police Officers to protect the population, and not enough medical staff or beds for those who need the NHS.



Not enough affordable housing to house the population in the UK now, we are constantly trying to catch up no matter which Government is in power it had been like this for a long time,money alone will not solve the problem it never has.

 :hattip Good post Churchill.



Part of the problem regarding qualifications is that medical training (nursing, medical, surgical) in the UK is recognised throughout the world as being world class. Any British qualified nurse or doctor can get a job virtually anywhere in the world with top local pay.This is just one reason why so many foreign medics join the NHS to get UK experience; it certainly isn't the generous pay!



This means we train them at eye watering cost to the tax payer and lose them abroad before we get sufficient payback on the investment. Of course once they are abroad any repayment of student loans stops so we are doubly stuffed.



Now I don't suggest we try to enforce minimum terms of work for the NHS in return for hundreds of thousands of pounds of training  but we need to find a solution to this problem. Remuneration terms should certainly should be considered as should loyalty bonuses say for example at five and ten years.



I have a nephew who as soon as he completed his training ( 5 years at university, 2 years practical experience FY1, FY2, followed by a further 2 years to qualify as a GP so 9 years in all) he has resigned from the NHS and gone to New Zealand on a much higher salary package. The UK has invested hundreds of thousands and he and NZ benefit.

[Nick]

Nursing is a woman's job, like education is. If women did quantum mechanics then the picture would be different. Everyone would see them as goddesses of all things. You know how the bloke thinks. Well what passes for it anyway.



For police it is the same psychology as those huge chrome bars on the 4x4s they drive to take the kids to school. The boogeyman might be around the next corner and they need protection. Muesliman can't provide it so they need the police. Firemen can be explained by watching Trumpton.

Not sure if you're serious or just think you're funny but in reality you just make your self look a tit.



Go google Ada Lovelace and then come back with your misogynist bullshit.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Oh dear mate, talk about sticking both feet in your gob. Women do, do quantum mechanics. I really think you should have checked your facts first.

I know, we see them on the BBC sometimes. They do everything these days, but its just nursing is a big employer when the country is so sick. Women are into PR in a big way, where the blokes just get on with the job, so you see less on the telly because they are often working. The Economist is full of these young women as well. They will tell you they are economics' graduates more than likely, but the information and usefulness content of their speak is zero.

[papasmurf]

 If women did quantum mechanics then the picture would be different.

Oh dear mate, talk about sticking both feet in your gob. Women do, do quantum mechanics. I really think you should have checked your facts first.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Everyone and their dog is promising more money for nurses, DR's, fire-people, Police etc.......



The same people are up in arms that nurses don't get bursaries to aid their qualification any more!  What about Charlie who wants to train as a welder or builder?  No one gives a hoot that he has to fund his own way threw life, why should his contribution to society be deemed less fundable that a nurse for example? I am damn sure there are more people dependent on a water tight building over their head that a cast on their arm.



Obviously I m not underestimating the importance of our fantastic emergency services but let's have a level playing field.

Nursing is a woman's job, like education is. If women did quantum mechanics then the picture would be different. Everyone would see them as goddesses of all things. You know how the bloke thinks. Well what passes for it anyway.



For police it is the same psychology as those huge chrome bars on the 4x4s they drive to take the kids to school. The boogeyman might be around the next corner and they need protection. Muesliman can't provide it so they need the police. Firemen can be explained by watching Trumpton.

[Sheepy]

Take your time over it,as two years ago,the best brains in the country had already worked it out for you,as I kindly showed you and them.

[Sheepy]

I guess we have reached the usual point then,when after years of telling us it is not a problem,we are now admitting it is a very big problem,now it is oh feck what are we going to do about it,probably throw money at it,that is the usual answer to everything.

[Churchill]

Is this just a roundabout way of using immigrants as a scapegoat for the countries problems while letting the government off the hook?

Who said anything about migrants ? the problem is the number of people in the UK not where they come from, we cannot build enough hospitals, schools , social housing etc fast enough to cater for the numbers of people, no Government has been able to deal with this problem , none of them there is no quick fix.

[cromwell]

:hattip  :hattip

[johnofgwent]

Everyone and their dog is promising more money for nurses, DR's, fire-people, Police etc.......



The same people are up in arms that nurses don't get bursaries to aid their qualification any more!  What about Charlie who wants to train as a welder or builder?  No one gives a hoot that he has to fund his own way threw life, why should his contribution to society be deemed less fundable that a nurse for example? I am damn sure there are more people dependent on a water tight building over their head that a cast on their arm.



Obviously I m not underestimating the importance of our fantastic emergency services but let's have a level playing field.

Well, the thing I would say is ....



Government *knows* (as well as it knows anything) how many hospitals it is prepared to build and fund.



In my day the brightest got free university education because the government of the day felt a) the country would benefit b) while some would join the brain drain, others would not and c) the tax hike caused by the higher wages earned by those people staying,over the next 40 years, made it worthwhile.



But this was against a background of limited immigration and significant investment by I dustry, particularly nationalised industry, in training those it took into its trade.



Today it's all gone to cock.



If it were down to me, I would provide places free of charge for as many people as the forecasts suggest we need subject only to the applicant meeting the same stringent admission criteria and signing up to work a certain number of years in the public sector in return. Which is no different to what school leavers taking apprenticeships in the old days had to do. Training to external industry standards given in exchange for signing up to work for the company for a period. After that, you're free to do as you will.



I do not advocate providing extra places and I would offer the option after selection on academic merit, and leave open the option to refuse the 'bursary',  pay the fees yourself and be free to do as you will from day one thereafter.



I rather strongly suspect there would be significant take up as I spent six years in that sector myself and many of those I trained and later worked with felt that way.



As for other sectors, for too long this country's large industries have had the benefit of the skill sets of the people they recruit without giving back enough to sustain the process.



In the industry I adopted after Maggie T threw me out of my career of first choice, one software house was derided as for demanding staff who they trained pay back the cost of that training if they left within 24 months. That policy was abandoned at the same time that Blair filled this country with Indians with dodgy fast tracked visas and even dodgier CVs and FAR dodgier degree certificates.



I think industry should pay more for its skilled recruits, and should face rather higher charges for importing foreigners at graduate level. After all, if they're so much brighter than our home grown graduates, you'll soon recoup the penalty fees in profits won't you...



And all those funds should go as bursaries to students seeking training in those subjects....