Lisa Nandy

[Baron von Lotsov]

Whoever takes on the leadership needs to be measured against BJ. Unless they imagine that putting a slight woman in front of him will make him lose his bottle so as not to be called a mysogenist. I guess there might be more than one way to skin a cat or maybe de-claw a lion!

Boris visits our town before the election.



Labour's ugly mob assemble to greet him on an industrial estate outside of the town.



Boris said he was going to visit a bakery and the production part is on this estate.



The firm have two local shops, one here and one 7 miles away where Tory HQ is.



Boris visits the other bakery, probably pops into Tory HQ for his lunch, and then heads back to our town, but gets to the high street where people who have not come to see him think, wot, have I been drinking or is that Boris Johnson? Then say hello, the press get the good vibe pictures and then its back home. Labour's mob had signs saying Johnson is a fool. They thought he had coped out, and had no idea he was where he wanted to be from the start!

[Thomas]

Of course there is Tommy. There is planting raspberry canes and strawberries so that futures great grandchildren will be able stuff their faces prior to climbing the fruit trees and pelting me with apples and pears as their parents did.

love it borkie , thinking about the planet , and becoming self sufficient in the process before the europeans stop providing food for you and us jocks turn aff the water gas and electricity to you too  if you dont play ball.

And I like to put in tax claims for my friends and pick up a few pounds tutoring in maths.

ah a bit of socialism there too into the bargain by helping the masses ,see you arent all bad auld yin for a tory.

 I like to come here and discuss politics.

nothing much to discuss at the minute borkie , i think we will have to wait till the new year till the rot sets in , and then we will be up and running on all fronts hopefully.

[Borchester]

Me?







Surely theres more to life than selling spring water to miles down the peckham allotments and hanging union bunting from the shed walls?

Of course there is Tommy. There is planting raspberry canes and strawberries so that futures great grandchildren will be able stuff their faces prior to climbing the fruit trees and pelting me with apples and pears as their parents did. And I like to put in tax claims for my friends and pick up a few pounds tutoring in maths.



And now that Get Shorty, Modern Family and the Big Bang Theory have finished and it is too wet to garden, I like to come here and discuss politics.

[Thomas]

You appear to be suffering from the hero problem Tommy and want some wise leader or Telly Tubby like Wee Krankie to lead you through life.



I want Alf, who is the chairman of my allotment society. He does not do much but then we don't want him to do much. The general feeling is that someone has to drive the train and that he will do until someone similarly harmless turns up.

Me?



I dont want anyone to be my hero. You on the other hand seem to feel you need a hero , that shrewd political operator ::  tory blair in opposition to boris  for politics to become respectable again in your country . :roll:



There was me thinking you were up there with the intellectual political giants in peckham like trigger and boycie , wanting wurzel or a wurzel clone to remain in charge of the brothers and sisters so bojo had easy opposition to beat .?



Surely theres more to life than selling spring water to miles down the peckham allotments and hanging union bunting from the shed walls?



I thought you were a bit of a political thinker borkie , obviously not it seems.

[Borchester]

Ah the famous "british " democracy , or the illusion of it.



choice of two parties  , red and blue tory , selling voters a pig in a poke , is your ideal of democracy?



You do set very high standards del boy.



Its like asking people to pick who has the greater intellect , mickey pearce or trigger , and calling it a difficult question.

You appear to be suffering from the hero problem Tommy and want some wise leader or Telly Tubby like Wee Krankie to lead you through life.



I want Alf, who is the chairman of my allotment society. He does not do much but then we don't want him to do much. The general feeling is that someone has to drive the train and that he will do until someone similarly harmless turns up.

[Churchill]

In 1965 I was not even aware of Polotics or what parties there were in my own country or yours or Ireland, when I speak in general terms about England my country I have no interest in Scotland or Ireland

[Thomas]

Simple the main parties in the UK were traditionally Labour or Conservatives with the Liberals in third place, as for the other small parties in Scotland Wales or NI not available to voters in England where the bulk of the population live

the english conservative party didnt stand in scotland till 1965 , they have no representation in northern ireland , and labour dont stand there.



Im not making the point plaid cymru  or sinn fein arent available to english people ,neither are la republique en marche in france either , but the fact this misnomer of uk wide political parties is a fantasy they dont exist.



Further the bulk of the population living in england is a new and modern thing , and we all know the reason why  , and its an irrelevance.



The bulk of the eu population live on the continent , its didnt mean you were disenfrachised when voting or suffered belittlement in elections in europe because there is only a mere 55 million english in the 500 million eu?

[Churchill]

Simple the main parties in the UK were traditionally Labour or Conservatives with the Liberals in third place, as for the other small parties in Scotland Wales or NI not available to voters in England where the bulk of the population live

[Thomas]

None at all Tommy. Democracy is about being able to vote. The fact that all the candidates turn your stomach is neither here nor there.

Ah the famous "british " democracy , or the illusion of it.



choice of two parties  , red and blue tory , selling voters a pig in a poke , is your ideal of democracy?



You do set very high standards del boy.



Its like asking people to pick who has the greater intellect , mickey pearce or trigger , and calling it a difficult question.

[Thomas]

When it comes to the main political parties in the UK, its a Hobsons' Choice of which one will do me and mine and my country the least damage that is why I have never ever voted for Labour,

what do you mean the main political parties of the uk?



There is no uk wide party that stands in all four nations and has representation there , there are two main parties in englands parliament that are anglo centric and have most of their seats and support in your country.



Having a choice is the point ,having two parties the same does nothing but damage democracy.

[Borchester]

surely though you see how much damage it did to the democracy in your country when the electorate were given the choice of picking between two parties , red/blue tories , with barely a fag paper between them in policy?

None at all Tommy. Democracy is about being able to vote. The fact that all the candidates turn your stomach is neither here nor there.

[Churchill]

When it comes to the main political parties in the UK, its a Hobsons' Choice of which one will do me and mine and my country the least damage that is why I have never ever voted for Labour,

[Thomas]

I don't care how and why Blair won.

im not saying you do care.



...but when you come out with this auld bollocks...

 but he is still a shrewd operator who won three elections

it needs addressing which is what i did.



Its like england winning the two team cricket world cup against the ayrshire loyal cricket team , it makes them world champions , true , but wheres the merit in their victory that justifies them being called shrewd cricket operators?

[Thomas]

Exactly I want them to stay as they are for at least another totally unelectable, then fade away into oblivion their tried and failed every time ideology is no good for man nor beast.

surely though you see how much damage it did to the democracy in your country when the electorate were given the choice of picking between two parties , red/blue tories , with barely a fag paper between them in policy?



Whatever your personal distaste for wurzel ,and its not about your personal like or dislikes , he at least offered a choice to your electorate however unpalatable?

[Borchester]

I think the idea tony blair was some master political operator is just more bumfluff you read from the out of date newspapers they can barely give away.



He did win three elections , but it was done against weak opposition ,  facing one of the most inept conservative parties in uk history.



We could have pinned a red rosette on you  , got you to do your cockney sparra routine , and you would have won a landslide in 1997 after 17 years of conservative governments , the uk was tired and wanted and needed change.



On the old forum over the years , we went over in great detail the myth behind the blairite victories , which were far less impressive after close inspection than mythology makes it out to be.



Kinnock and smith did all the donkey work to get labour electable , and blair took the credit. Blair then went on to lose millions of labour votes , his ideology lost scotland and northern england , he turned millions off politics altogether winning a landslide victory in 2005 on a mere 35% of the vote on a 60 % turnout , and the election before he won an even bigger majority on even smaller turnout , all the while done by turning red tory , and trying to out bribe a million or so conservative voters in a few english marginals.



The facts around blair is far less impressive than the mythology people love to spout about him.



I hope they do go back to bairism.



For those like you with short memories , labour  tried  this in scotland in 2014 , after the scottish indy ref , when scotland was supposed to come back into labours arms after the nasty nationalists had lost , they elected if you remember right wing blairite jim murphy to lead the party in scotland.



He then went on to suffer one of labours biggest drubbings in scottish political history , losing 40/41 labour seats in the GE2015.



So aye borkie , im more than happy if labour want to resurrect the dead corpse of blairism. in fact i would be over the moon. :thup:

I don't care how and why Blair won. The fact is that he did and I don't want any red Tory running the country. I want a blue Tory like Boris and for that we need a decent lefty numbskull running the Labour party. Someone like John McDonnell who will be cheered to the echo by Momentum and generally fvck things up. The Semtex Kid has vowed not to stand which means that he probably will.