I am sure three people’s names will also become the norm ....

[johnofgwent]

So speaketh the 1950s.

The irony of Rosalind Franklins 1952 X ray crystallograph correcting Linus Pauling's inversion of reality with an internal phosphate chain and external free nucleosides is not lost on me but I spent years wearing a lab coat and met the guy (and owe his memory a favour, still)

[Sheepy]

Interesting that the thought police would arrive under the heading political correctness. When obviously inter-generational thought has been changed by anything but natural means. 

[Barry]

You're getting confused between sex and gender, in modern society they are not the same.
Sex is assigned at birth, gender isn't.

I'm not a bit confused, Nick. It's those that have been affected by the trans lobby psychobabble that are confused. They need therapy, not I.

[Nick]

Actually, no. So speaks the science, Steve. When you call a man "she" you are in denial of science and facts. It might be respecting that person's wishes, but it disrespects the truth.

You're getting confused between sex and gender, in modern society they are not the same.
Sex is assigned at birth, gender isn't.

[cromwell]

Natural? Nature has a warped sense of humour that produces small (in number) but distinct differences that neither man nor beast has control over.

Amongst the so called natural majority there's an unnatural desire by some to seek their superiority over those they see as an aberration whilst denying their abbérant desire that stretches even to eradication.

[Sheepy]

So speaketh the 1950s.

In a way maybe, maybe the difference is your norms are based on societal coercion driven by psychology, which may have changed much about how people view what is normal, while confusing what is natural with the unnatural.   

[Barry]

So speaketh the 1950s.

Actually, no. So speaks the science, Steve. When you call a man "she" you are in denial of science and facts. It might be respecting that person's wishes, but it disrespects the truth.

[srb7677]

That might be easier if there were any such thing as a "genuine trans woman". There is no such thing. A trans woman is a man, bloke, lad.
Always will be.

So speaketh the 1950s.

[Barry]

It is an area where there are no easy answers, where accepting the sensibilities of some imevitably infringes on those of others. Take the transgender lady at work who is transitioning to female, having always felt herself to be female. It would be an insult and an infringement of her dignity to force her to use the male toilets. And yet the fact that some female colleagues feel uncomfortable sharing the toilets with her, aware as they are that she still has a penis is not an unreasonable way to feel either. There is no easy answer to that one.

And you go along with all this bull, do you? That lady is a bloke, right? You lie to yourself when you call him "she". He should use the gents or a toilet marked "WC" that is neutral.

In the workplace staff toilets, whichever ones the trans female used she would be safe enough, as would all other females in her presence. But what about public toilets more generally? A trans lady using the gents' would be highly vulnerable to some kind of homophobic assault, ranging from verbal abuse and intimidation right up to murder. Such a person is far safer using the ladies'.

Are you saying that the trans "lady" who happens to be a man is homosexual as well? A truly mixed up person. I feel sorry for them.
Such a person is far safer dressing as a male and going to the gents. No one forces this man to dress as a woman or pretend they are one.

And it does not strike me as being very high on any scale of likeliness that any man would falsely claim to live their lives as a trans woman just to gain rape opportunities in toilets. We need as a society to make a distinction between a genuine trans and some hetero guy dressed up in drag. These latter could pose a potential threat if they are minded to. How to draw and define the line legalistically does require rather more thought, though. It cannot simply be a case of some guy on the spur of the moment suddenly deciding to self identify as a woman for opportunistic reasons to gain access to the ladies' toilets. It is the case for example - a fact which we tend not to talk about in polite company but needs to be acknowledged here - that a small minority of guys will have a perverted sexual interest in the toilet activities of ladies. Some such types might be prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to gain access to the ladies' toilets. This does verty much need to be guarded against.

That might be easier if there were any such thing as a "genuine trans woman". There is no such thing. A trans woman is a man, bloke, lad.
Always will be.

[papasmurf]

What I don't understand is that no-one seems to have a handle on the fact that women feel threatened. Not just in the loos but in many places where we expect to have women only. I think a third place is the obvious answer like the disabled loos.

The problem is all too often the disabled toilets are disabled.

[T00ts]

Should be entitled to use the disabled bogs.

What I don't understand is that no-one seems to have a handle on the fact that women feel threatened. Not just in the loos but in many places where we expect to have women only. I think a third place is the obvious answer like the disabled loos.

[cromwell]

It is an area where there are no easy answers, where accepting the sensibilities of some imevitably infringes on those of others. Take the transgender lady at work who is transitioning to female, having always felt herself to be female. It would be an insult and an infringement of her dignity to force her to use the male toilets. And yet the fact that some female colleagues feel uncomfortable sharing the toilets with her, aware as they are that she still has a penis is not an unreasonable way to feel either. There is no easy answer to that one.

In the workplace staff toilets, whichever ones the trans female used she would be safe enough, as would all other females in her presence. But what about public toilets more generally? A trans lady using the gents' would be highly vulnerable to some kind of homophobic assault, ranging from verbal abuse and intimidation right up to murder. Such a person is far safer using the ladies'.

Should be entitled to use the disabled bogs.

[srb7677]

..and maybe that's the problem. I know men hate to feel it but it is still very much a man's world in many ways and it seems to me that, sadly, it is the women of the species who are losing out yet again. It is transgender females who are encroaching on female sports so that women can no longer compete on a level paying field. To suddenly find a broad shouldered narrow hipped 6ft person in the female changing room is intimidating in a way that I don't think men can even start to understand and yet we are supposed to accept it without any knowledge if that person is a genuine transgender and complete. Too often already we are hearing of 'transgender' females raping women and according to Scottish police will still be referred to as women. Like you I have no problem with live and let live. My faith tells me to love all and I try very hard to live that, but where one sector of society is so diminished by another, whatever the gender, then something has to be wrong.

It is an area where there are no easy answers, where accepting the sensibilities of some imevitably infringes on those of others. Take the transgender lady at work who is transitioning to female, having always felt herself to be female. It would be an insult and an infringement of her dignity to force her to use the male toilets. And yet the fact that some female colleagues feel uncomfortable sharing the toilets with her, aware as they are that she still has a penis is not an unreasonable way to feel either. There is no easy answer to that one.

In the workplace staff toilets, whichever ones the trans female used she would be safe enough, as would all other females in her presence. But what about public toilets more generally? A trans lady using the gents' would be highly vulnerable to some kind of homophobic assault, ranging from verbal abuse and intimidation right up to murder. Such a person is far safer using the ladies'. 

And it does not strike me as being very high on any scale of likeliness that any man would falsely claim to live their lives as a trans woman just to gain rape opportunities in toilets. We need as a society to make a distinction between a genuine trans and some hetero guy dressed up in drag. These latter could pose a potential threat if they are minded to. How to draw and define the line legalistically does require rather more thought, though. It cannot simply be a case of some guy on the spur of the moment suddenly deciding to self identify as a woman for opportunistic reasons to gain access to the ladies' toilets. It is the case for example - a fact which we tend not to talk about in polite company but needs to be acknowledged here - that a small minority of guys will have a perverted sexual interest in the toilet activities of ladies. Some such types might be prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to gain access to the ladies' toilets. This does verty much need to be guarded against.

[papasmurf]

Didn't I read recently that they have 'discovered' over 100 genders? 

Judging by some of the people appearing on TV that would not surprise me at all.

[johnofgwent]

Didn't I read recently that they have 'discovered' over 100 genders? The mind boggles! Presumably because I am a real woman who enjoys DIY and those hobbies that used to be a man's prerogative I am no longer considered a true woman. Perhaps it is fortunate that my husband passed before he learned that!

Well, as I have pointed out, I brought my daughter's up to know how to change a cylinder head and half shaft. If they wish to wiggle their bits at the roadside to attract aid from some hulk if they break down, that's their choice.

My job was to make sure it wasn't the only one.

A woman who originally hails from this neck of the woods who is one of the members of an ARSEbook group I belong to went to North East Canada a good while ago, got married and after her husband died she became the town's mayor. She rides a motor tricycle and has just recently sold up and bought one of those seriously massive camper vans the size of a 53 seater coach to travel the states in her remaining retirement years !