rishi trying to stop brexit

[GerryT]

ok. I will skim through your reply and pick out what is worth replying to gerry. Im a busy guy , and dont always have time to come on here and educate you on ireland  , its history people and politics.

As for the quote above ,lets put it to bed and accept we both know and agree there is no mechanism for triggering a poll rather than you keep repeating yourself ad nauseum.

For a man skimming your sure write a lot, or does skimming mean you'll be selective in what you reply to. Educate 

It doesnt matter who was reporting the poll. the point was yet again , you calimed earlier in the thread that you werent aware of anyone in northern ireland supporting the view of holding a border poll , and i gave you a link to a poll that evisecerated your latest piece of guff.

I asked you what poll as the article was pay walled, obviously unionists support the idea of remaining in the UK, this is what you posted

Some 50.7 per cent said there should be a vote on whether Northern Ireland remained in the UK at some point before 2025, while 44.4 per cent said there should not, and 5 per cent did not know.

You still don't get it, a border poll is called when there is the likelihood of a united Ireland, not a UK. The opposite is being said above, your saying above that the majority .. 50.7% want to remain in the UK. That is not a majority for a border poll. So where is it your saying there is a majority for a border poll. It's you, as usual that's talking guff.
And when there is a majority, it won't be 50%+1, that's undemocratic, the way brexit was done, idiotic.

We are talking about northern ireland , and lucid talk are based in belfast , and regularly poll on irish politics north and south , but not exclusively.

Another faint hearted and weak attempt at a dodge from you as ever.

Lucid talk are in NI and GB. Their not in Ireland, the country incase your confused. Maybe you can show me the constant stream of polls they do on Ireland, this should be good.
Their not known in Ireland, I've only heard of them regarding border poll's in the UK (NI). But you could get any poll to say anything in NI, each town is so divided it really depends where you ask the question, not what the question is.

you dont know lucidtalk , an irish polling company based in belfast , but you can regualrly trot out the inner workings of uk democracy , and appear to know every move boris johnson makes while you dont utter a cheep about irish politics in the republic?

Where did you get that idea. Making up stuff again Thomas. I said who are they, you call them an Irish polling company, their not, their a UK polling company. Belfast is in the UK the last time I checked.
Your a little slow on the uptake, like I have said dozens of times, I'm here to discuss Brexit, that may included Ireland in the discussion, but predominantly it's about what the UK does, brexit is your gig and nobody is forcing the UK to do anything, every decision made is a decision of free will.

Gerry ,if you were making any points i would be interested to hear them.

....but you arent. You are on this forum doing two things.......screaming brexit is bad and boris is a liar. I tell you i think you are in denial and still in shock the uk voted out in 2016 .

Thats a point of view, usually on a forum you will have some supporting the topic, others against it. I'm not sayiong brexit is bad, I observe it's bad. If you disagree then you say it's good and show me how it's good. Hey presto, we have a forum for debate. The UK did vote out, it's done and you're not going back. I've said a lot on here, have you not being listening. Like recently when I asked:
#17 Will Johnson walk away from the TCA for NI ?
#21 What are the limits of the protocol ?
#21 and #25 You claimed that the majority in NI can see the limits of the protocol, I said there's no majority that holds that view, so show where you came up with that gem. And you say I don't know about NI politics.
#25 You said the current situation can't last, I asked why not, what is wrong with the NI Protocol.
#25 Why hasn't Johnson acted on Art16 and put up a border between NI and Ireland if it's so bad for the UK, you claimed it's in England's gift that the NI protocol is tolerated, so why hasn't he acted on it
#25 you suggested the people in NI favor a vote to select between Ireland or the UK, I asked where did you come up with that gem ?
There's prob more but what's the point. Maybe you should stop making things up, claiming I said x or y and arguing those points with yourself. Just answer the questions put to you

no need to gerry , i have forgotten more about it than you will ever know.

The GFA is another legacy of the liar blair that is turning to ashes.

Well if you knew the first thing about it, you would know there is no option within the agreement for a vote between unifying Ireland or solidifying the UK. It's not an either or vote. The GFA is ashes only in your head, it's an international agreement which the UK will be held to uphold.

Gerry i keep telling you the northern irish protocol isnt the stick you think it is to beat brexit. It s a feather mate.

Its a slow motion car crash , that you hope doesnt have an ending , but unfortunately for you , it does. Im sitting here eating popcorn watching it enfold .

I don't think it's a stick, their your words, like I say, stop making up points I don't make and then arguing them, you're just arguing with yourself. The NI protocol isn't a major problem, Johnson and his hand puppets the DUP are trying to make it look like there's a problem, but their isn't. NI business rely on free trade on the island of Ireland, it also needs free access to the UK, this problem is the making of Johnson, he said the magic unicorns would provide a technology solution, that didn't happen. The latest is Truss saying the UK is prepared to give concessions to have border checks between, is she sniffing glue, Johnson gave that away in 2019, the woman is deluded. But what it does say is that England is fully behind keeping the TCA and shafting the DUP and people of NI with a border between NI and GB. Don't eat too much popcorn while you wait, its fattening.

[Thomas]

That may need a 60 or 70% majority.

The mask is slipping gerry.  The anti democrat shines through again.

I doubt very much if it will come that soon

you hope you mean.

I would say I would like to see a competent govt in power in the UK.

Why? Whats it to a "foreigner" like you??

For the record we have a competent government. As competent as the westmisnter system normally produces , excpet to be fair to johnson he has had to deal with a once in a century pandemic and of course deal with a once in a half century constitutional issue like brexit. Remember , the remain parliament pre 2019 was refusing to implement democracy  , and he was elected to deal with that  , which he did.

You say you dont care about labour , yet here you say you want a competent government. Clearly the two statement are at odds.

The choice as you well know is labour or tory at westminster in what passes as democracy. If boris goes for example after may , then you can either hope the tories put in a remain pm short term , or labour get elected in two years time and the arch europhile starmer takes power.

Im not sure either is looking likely , for many reason i have explained time and again.

Or even a functional one, that would help things along with relations between the UK/EU, god knows you deserve it over there after the past 6yrs of crazy land.

crazy land?

Well , its been highly distastefull watching anti democratic remainers try and stop democracy being enacted , but its been reassuring watching the will of the people being enacted , and democracy through mr johnson and his tories prevailing.

Thank christ we are out of the EU. Woe betide any politician trying to take the uk back in , or tying the uk in behind closed doors.

that I want NI to be left to make their own decision,

Going well at the minute isnt it?

The GFA and the protocol being used to shaft northern irish unionists. Like i said ,its a ticking timebomb waiting to explode. How long can it be held together before it does gerry?

Executive gone , elections in doubt , anger rising.



Anyway gerry once you have googled who paul givan is  , and why he resigned , pop back and let us know what you think.

[Thomas]

Your playing your own game that was half of what I said. I said there is no agreed mechanism for triggering.

ok. I will skim through your reply and pick out what is worth replying to gerry. Im a busy guy , and dont always have time to come on here and educate you on ireland  , its history people and politics.

As for the quote above ,lets put it to bed and accept we both know and agree there is no mechanism for triggering a poll rather than you keep repeating yourself ad nauseum.

You didn't give a lucid talk poll, you gave a pay walled times, I found a lucid talk poll. And for reference most ROI people wouldn't know what lucid talk is, as its a UK polling company. Ireland would usually use RedC polling.

It doesnt matter who was reporting the poll. the point was yet again , you calimed earlier in the thread that you werent aware of anyone in northern ireland supporting the view of holding a border poll , and i gave you a link to a poll that evisecerated your latest piece of guff.

And for reference most ROI people wouldn't know what lucid talk is, as its a UK polling company.

We are talking about northern ireland , and lucid talk are based in belfast , and regularly poll on irish politics north and south , but not exclusively.

Another faint hearted and weak attempt at a dodge from you as ever.

Like I say, who is lucid talk, why would I know a UK polling company

you dont know lucidtalk , an irish polling company based in belfast , but you can regualrly trot out the inner workings of uk democracy , and appear to know every move boris johnson makes while you dont utter a cheep about irish politics in the republic?

Like usual you focus on conspiracy theories and not the points being made.

Gerry ,if you were making any points i would be interested to hear them.

....but you arent. You are on this forum doing two things.......screaming brexit is bad and boris is a liar. I tell you i think you are in denial and still in shock the uk voted out in 2016 .

You make it sound very simple, it's not. If you want I'll link you a copy of the GFA and you can show me what the criteria for holding a NI poll is. Good luck with that one.

no need to gerry , i have forgotten more about it than you will ever know.

The GFA is another legacy of the liar blair that is turning to ashes.

I don't think it's an achilles heel, your the one that keeps saying that. A typical Thomas straw man.
It's what Johnson and the EU agreed, it's what people wanted, it's what people voted for. You got what you wanted, you should be happy. It will last decades, or until there is a vote to reunite, they are the only two options available.
I really don't care who's in power in the UK, your out of the EU and you could put in coco the clown, that would be an upgrade from what you currently have though. Labour could fall apart or take over, I don't care, why would I. All I care about is the UK honoring it's international agreements.
It is interesting, but it's also bizarre, twisted, entertaining and collapsing. I'm not sure which is the most ap

Gerry i keep telling you the northern irish protocol isnt the stick you think it is to beat brexit. It s a feather mate.

Its a slow motion car crash , that you hope doesnt have an ending , but unfortunately for you , it does. Im sitting here eating popcorn watching it enfold .

[GerryT]

heres another lucidtalk poll being reported from a year earlier gerry , 2020 this time....

In both the NI and ROI polls, a majority of participants said they supported a referendum on Irish unity taking place within the next 10 years.

Commenting on the results of the poll for The Detail, Professor Colin Harvey of Queen's University Belfast stated: "It increasingly looks like support for the current constitutional arrangements is on a knife-edge. That is simply remarkable. It shakes the legitimacy of the foundations of the existing constitutional order."

https://thedetail.tv/articles/a-majority-favour-a-border-poll-on-the-island-of-ireland-in-the-next-10-years

Its strange you hadnt heard of any of these polls gerry?

Nobody is arguing that the political situation in NI is changing toward a Nationalist majority, so what. A basic majority is not how this will be resolved, or at least I hope not. But I do know in Ireland there will be alot of debate with the pros and cons being discussed throughout the media and a vote will be taken. That may need a 60 or 70% majority. Personally I'd favour reunification, I think a united Ireland will drive our economy even stronger. But there is alot of issues to be resolved in NI, again I thing time is required, so a vote in 20 or 30 yrs would seem the best plan to me. What happens with brexit or the UK doesn't come into it. GB can worry about itself.

Jist thinking 2028 looks a good possibility. What happens if your labour heroes havnae overturned brexit by then , and the northern irish leave  the uk?

On a knife edge gerry bhoy.

Must be hard for you having your hopes all pinned on northern ireland being a big stick to beat english brexiters with , and no one gives a fack.

I tell you , eventually even those dimwits at westmisnter are going to see the writing on the wall.

I doubt very much if it will come that soon. Like I say I don't really care what happens to Labour. I would say I would like to see a competent govt in power in the UK. Or even a functional one, that would help things along with relations between the UK/EU, god knows you deserve it over there after the past 6yrs of crazy land.
You keep saying I see NI as a stick to beat the UK, I don't. I keep saying, but you don't listen, that I want NI to be left to make their own decision, without interference from Johnson and his merry band of idiots. This is how it has been agreed in the GFA and NI protocol, it's fully in the hands of the people of NI to decide their own future, together.

[GerryT]

Not playing your wee game.

you can sit and waffle on a load of auld rubbish all day , and poorly attempt to spin all ye like , but the point was you claimed you didnt know anyone who supported the view of northern ireland having a border poll

Your playing your own game  that was half of what I said. I said there is no agreed mechanism for triggering. IF you understood NI politics you would know 50%+1 doesn't work for anything. It has been suggested that it will require a majority in both communities. Where did I say that I didn't know anyone in NI having a border poll ??  I clearly showed Unionists are clearly against the idea and Nationalists for it. 

and i gave you a lucid talk poll reported in a paper showing the majority want a poll within the next five years.( and counting down)
Quote

You didn't give a lucid talk poll, you gave a pay walled times, I found a lucid talk poll. And for reference most ROI people wouldn't know what lucid talk is, as its a UK polling company. Ireland would usually use RedC polling.

Now me being a mere scotsman , and you being an irishman , you can imagine my surprsie that you hadnt

1. appeared to have heard of lucidtalk , a well known irish polling company . Anyone with the scantest sliver of interest in irish politics knows lucidtalk. you went off to google them.

2. didny know lucidtalk had been polling on opinions on a border poll.

So the clear point gerry , you are caught out talking cac yet again.

Like I say, who is lucid talk, why would I know a UK polling company
Not a well known Irish polling company, can you show me any polls they have done in Ireland, and so you understand Ireland is a country commonly known in the UK as the republic of Ireland.
Who siad I didn't know Lucid talk, I think I was the one that linked it.
Like usual you focus on conspiracy theories and not the points being made.

stop repeating yourself gerry. You and i over the years , and thorugh this very thread , have both mentioned many a time that the border poll is under the discretion of the british sos for ni.

You make it sound very simple, it's not. If you want I'll link you a copy of the GFA and you can show me what the criteria for holding a NI poll is. Good luck with that one.

pretty much jist a load of your normal space filling waffle.

The point i keep making is

1. northern ireland isnt the brexiter achillies heel you think it is , and never has been.

2.how long can this dogs dinner limp along before someone somewhere runs out of patience ?

your best bet as i said , is for your pal keir starmer and his labour party to get into power in two years time. I know you are very carefull like others on here though not to talk about that , and dont want to link labour with rejoin in case it damages them.

Its a feasable solution , but it depends once again on the mythical remain majority magically appearing for the first time to overturn your hated brexit. I can't see it.

Johnson is still in place, he doesnt appear to be going anywhere , 8/10 scots for example hate labour and wont vote for starmer , and in england he is desperately hoping to win back the red wall seats while taking many of the tory shires to get into westmisnter.

All to play for gerry. Isnt politics interesting in the uk?

I don't think it's an achilles heel, your the one that keeps saying that. A typical Thomas straw man.
It's what Johnson and the EU agreed, it's what people wanted, it's what people voted for. You got what you wanted, you should be happy. It will last decades, or until there is a vote to reunite, they are the only two options available.
I really don't care who's in power in the UK, your out of the EU and you could put in coco the clown, that would be an upgrade from what you currently have though. Labour could fall apart or take over, I don't care, why would I. All I care about is the UK honoring it's international agreements.
It is interesting, but it's also bizarre, twisted, entertaining and collapsing. I'm not sure which is the most apt

[srb7677]

It is an oddity of the left claims that while it claims to have the march of history on its side and all the tools of scientific socialism to command, when it comes to putting its hand in its pocket it comes over all shy.

Put up or shut up Steve

It is a fool who bets against the stupidity of Tory MPs.

[Borchester]

Personally, I would not risk my money on such a bet.

It is an oddity of the left claims that while it claims to have the march of history on its side and all the tools of scientific socialism to command, when it comes to putting its hand in its pocket it comes over all shy.

Put up or shut up Steve

[srb7677]

I will bet you £20 that Bojo will still be PM in June 2022.

Personally, I would not risk my money on such a bet. Whilst it is clear that his continuation in office is proving to be a disaster for the Tories, and for Tory MPs, doing immense reputational damage to both them and their party, it is also looking as if many of them are too stupid to do anything about it.

So I am not certain enough to bet on pragmatism, integrity, and obvious necessity, winning out over sheer stupidity.

And sadly, if stupidity prevails, they are gifting the next election to Starmer, which is the last thing I want because it will set back my cause for decades. So the Tories and I have a common aim, coming at it from opposite directions, and that is to prevent a Starmer victory at all costs. So I find myself in the curious position of despairing at the current state of the Tory party. Because whilst I don't want it to win outright or even to be the largest party in a hung parliament, I do need it to be able to play it's part in preventing a Labour majority. But right now they are gifting it to them, when Starmer and co have done feck all to deserve it..

[srb7677]

I hope Westminster Conservatives aren't fool enough to make him a Candidate for PM.

Well since they were demonstrably fool enough to make a man so clearly unfit for office as Johnson as a candidate for PM, anything is possible.

[Sheepy]

Well feck Rishi stupid name anyway I would be pulling strings for a job elsewhere now if I was him. 

[Thomas]

heres another lucidtalk poll being reported from a year earlier gerry , 2020 this time....

In both the NI and ROI polls, a majority of participants said they supported a referendum on Irish unity taking place within the next 10 years.

Commenting on the results of the poll for The Detail, Professor Colin Harvey of Queen's University Belfast stated: "It increasingly looks like support for the current constitutional arrangements is on a knife-edge. That is simply remarkable. It shakes the legitimacy of the foundations of the existing constitutional order."

https://thedetail.tv/articles/a-majority-favour-a-border-poll-on-the-island-of-ireland-in-the-next-10-years

Its strange you hadnt heard of any of these polls gerry?

Jist thinking 2028 looks a good possibility. What happens if your labour heroes havnae overturned brexit by then , and the northern irish leave  the uk?

On a knife edge gerry bhoy.

Must be hard for you having your hopes all pinned on northern ireland being a big stick to beat english brexiters with , and no one gives a fack.

I tell you , eventually even those dimwits at westmisnter are going to see the writing on the wall.

[Thomas]

If you look at the poll details there is no consensus for having a poll.

Not playing your wee game.

you can sit and waffle on a load of auld rubbish all day , and poorly attempt to spin all ye like , but the point was you claimed you didnt know anyone who supported the view of northern ireland having a border poll

When you say that the majority of NI support your call for a ref on NI place in the UK, are you suggesting that the people of NI are in favour of a ref that would ask the people to decide between Ireland or the UK. Because I don't know any people in NI that support that view

and i gave you a lucid talk poll reported in a paper showing the majority want a poll within the next five years.( and counting down)

.A majority of voters in Northern Ireland want a border poll to be staged in the next five years, according to a new poll by LucidTalk for The Sunday Times.

Some 50.7 per cent said there should be a vote on whether Northern Ireland remained in the UK at some point before 2025, while 44.4 per cent said there should not, and 5 per cent did not know.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/northern-irish-back-border-poll-within-five-years-6ndbkz80s

Now me being a mere scotsman , and you being an irishman , you can imagine my surprsie that you hadnt

1. appeared to have heard of lucidtalk , a well known irish polling company . Anyone with the scantest sliver of interest in irish politics knows lucidtalk. you went off to google them.

2. didny know lucidtalk had been polling on opinions on a border poll.

So the clear point gerry , you are caught out talking cac yet again.

There isn't even an agreed mechanism to triggering a poll,

stop repeating yourself gerry. You and i over the years , and thorugh this very thread , have both mentioned many a time that the border poll is under the discretion of the british sos for ni.

Well the DUP has now collapsed Stormont and that news didn't make the front page of any GB national newspaper, nobody in GB cares about NI. All that will happen is the extremist unionist party - DUP will loose even more support, only the rabit extremists will continue to support them. The more middle ground unionist parties will get the disillusioned unionist community.

What is transpiring is Johnson has zero intention of triggering Art 16, it's just the sort of chaos Johnson thrives on, so he'll keep stoking the fire but he knows triggering Art16 will greatly hurt GB and he won't do that.

I've no idea what you mean by the 6 counties going, makes no sense. It's party in the EU and UK, but it's pretty seamless on the island of Ireland, the only mechanism to change that is the Johnson  NI protocol, which allows for reunification, it doesn't allow for NI relinquishing a future vote to reunify Ireland, that can be done on a never ending cycle with a min 7yr period between votes.

pretty much jist a load of your normal space filling waffle.

The point i keep making is

1. northern ireland isnt the brexiter achillies heel you think it is , and never has been.

2.how long can this dogs dinner limp along before someone somewhere runs out of patience ?

your best bet as i said , is for your pal keir starmer and his labour party to get into power in two years time. I know you are very carefull like others on here though not to talk about that , and dont want to link labour with rejoin in case it damages them.

Its a feasable solution , but it depends once again on the mythical remain majority magically appearing for the first time to overturn your hated brexit. I can't see it.

Johnson is still in place, he doesnt appear to be going anywhere , 8/10 scots for example hate labour and wont vote for starmer , and in england he is desperately hoping to win back the red wall seats while taking many of the tory shires to get into westmisnter.

All to play for gerry. Isnt politics interesting in the uk?

[cromwell]

If you look at the poll details there is no consensus for having a poll. There isn't even an agreed mechanism to triggering a poll, some suggest it would be a majority of both communities. But what does come through is a quarter of Unionists feel there should be a vote, that number will prob increase with time.

Well the DUP has now collapsed Stormont and that news didn't make the front page of any GB national newspaper, nobody in GB cares about NI. All that will happen is the extremist unionist party - DUP will loose even more support, only the rabit extremists will continue to support them. The more middle ground unionist parties will get the disillusioned unionist community.

What is transpiring is Johnson has zero intention of triggering Art 16, it's just the sort of chaos Johnson thrives on, so he'll keep stoking the fire but he knows triggering Art16 will greatly hurt GB and he won't do that.

I've no idea what you mean by the 6 counties going, makes no sense. It's party in the EU and UK, but it's pretty seamless on the island of Ireland, the only mechanism to change that is the Johnson  NI protocol, which allows for reunification, it doesn't allow for NI relinquishing a future vote to reunify Ireland, that can be done on a never ending cycle with a min 7yr period between votes.

Oh blimey Gerry someones got a loose support........send in the corsets.

And these rabbit extremists,bugs bunny runs amok,can't see it myself.

[GerryT]

aye we know all that. Im just surprised an irishman like you didnt know about lucid talk and polling on a border poll.

Many are saying they think there will be one by 2028 at latest , possibly earlier.

Be interesting to see the near term repercussions if the DUP collapse stormont , im following events there closely.

Could the "achillies heel " be collapsing all around you gerry?

If the 6 counties go  , you will need to find another "new" angle with which to attack your pet obsession...brexit.

If you look at the poll details there is no consensus for having a poll. There isn't even an agreed mechanism to triggering a poll, some suggest it would be a majority of both communities. But what does come through is a quarter of Unionists feel there should be a vote, that number will prob increase with time.

Well the DUP has now collapsed Stormont and that news didn't make the front page of any GB national newspaper, nobody in GB cares about NI. All that will happen is the extremist unionist party - DUP will loose even more support, only the rabit extremists will continue to support them. The more middle ground unionist parties will get the disillusioned unionist community.

What is transpiring is Johnson has zero intention of triggering Art 16, it's just the sort of chaos Johnson thrives on, so he'll keep stoking the fire but he knows triggering Art16 will greatly hurt GB and he won't do that.

I've no idea what you mean by the 6 counties going, makes no sense. It's party in the EU and UK, but it's pretty seamless on the island of Ireland, the only mechanism to change that is the Johnson  NI protocol, which allows for reunification, it doesn't allow for NI relinquishing a future vote to reunify Ireland, that can be done on a never ending cycle with a min 7yr period between votes.

[Thomas]

Well, the NI secretary of state decides if there is a majority in NI that might vote for a united Ireland

aye we know all that. Im just surprised an irishman like you didnt know about lucid talk and polling on a border poll.

Many are saying they think there will be one by 2028 at latest , possibly earlier.

Be interesting to see the near term repercussions if the DUP collapse stormont , im following events there closely.

Could the "achillies heel " be collapsing all around you gerry?

If the 6 counties go  , you will need to find another "new" angle with which to attack your pet obsession...brexit.