Friend or foe.

[Nick]

Henry VIII is seen as one of the defining personalities of British history - and yet he was a murderer and misogynist as well as being a renegade Catholic infidel who started his own breakaway sect and he was a fat, greedy pig with a huge ego to boot.  OK, so people will say those were different times and everyone was violent.  Whatever the rights and wrongs of Nelson Mandela, he was a much better man than Henry VIII !!

Maybe a personality, but not a hero and symbol for peace

[johnofgwent]

I don't think anyone will ever know the answer to that but its probably just a rumour put about by the Papists due to his many wives .

 :hattip

[Streetwalker]

I recall our Biology Mistress telling us he died of a certain "vile social disease" ... never looked up to see if that were the truth

I don't think anyone will ever know the answer to that but its probably just a rumour put about by the Papists due to his many wives .

[johnofgwent]

Thought you might have a disliking for our Henry VIII Quackers .  Rome at the time was like the EU ,controlling Europe with a religion that few understood but all had to obey . Henry VIII a bit of a hero of mine , the original brexiteer ! He was actually a bit of an athlete in his early years and only put on the timber after a hunting accident restricted his mobility .

I recall our Biology Mistress telling us he died of a certain "vile social disease" ... never looked up to see if that were the truth

[Streetwalker]

Henry VIII is seen as one of the defining personalities of British history - and yet he was a murderer and misogynist as well as being a renegade Catholic infidel who started his own breakaway sect and he was a fat, greedy pig with a huge ego to boot.  OK, so people will say those were different times and everyone was violent.  Whatever the rights and wrongs of Nelson Mandela, he was a much better man than Henry VIII !!

Thought you might have a disliking for our Henry VIII Quackers .  Rome at the time was like the EU ,controlling Europe with a religion that few understood but all had to obey . Henry VIII a bit of a hero of mine , the original brexiteer ! He was actually a bit of an athlete in his early years and only put on the timber after a hunting accident restricted his mobility .

[johnofgwent]

How about the French resistance in World War 2?  The sufragettes?



Terrorists?

Well that's interesting. I read your post and thought hang on, when did the women's suffrage movement employ murder mayhem bombing and riot. But I was quite surprised to find that they did indeed.



https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/06/1910s-suffragettes-suffragists-fern-riddell">https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... rn-riddell">https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/feb/06/1910s-suffragettes-suffragists-fern-riddell



I said as soon as the House of Commons conspired to derail Brexit that they were setting themselves up for a repeat of the irish solution, the only way to get our way being to start killing a few MP's, because the reality is that violence is indeed the only way when parliament sets its face against the will of the people.



And lo and behold, here we have the evidence "sanitised" from history according to the guardian that the movement was indeed happy to bomb and terrorise.



I'm sure the Germans viewed the French Resistance as terrorists just as they would have viewed the British resistance in the same light had the Keep Calm And Carry On posters gone up. Because those posters and that message was nothing of the sort, it was the signal to let slip the dogs of war embedded in the civilian population.



But I don't. The Americans introduced the concept of war crimes having dropped not one, but TWO nuclear weapons, the second on a ountry that had already surrendered. In war, there is war, and nothing else. The trouble is we don't do it properly any more. If we did, it would be over a bloody sight quicker.

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

Henry VIII is seen as one of the defining personalities of British history - and yet he was a murderer and misogynist as well as being a renegade Catholic infidel who started his own breakaway sect and he was a fat, greedy pig with a huge ego to boot.  OK, so people will say those were different times and everyone was violent.  Whatever the rights and wrongs of Nelson Mandela, he was a much better man than Henry VIII !!

[Baron von Lotsov]

His wife is was a charmer don't know it still alive or not, I remember he shaking a box of matches as she laughed claiming they still had their necklaces , a car tire wired around a person neck doused in petrol a very painful death for their enemies.



Today South Africa is an extremely dangerous country to live in, no matter who you are.

This is what got me more than just about anything when I was at Manchester University. Whilst this was all going on in South Africa the frgin nightmare idiots who were there so they could be employed by even bigger idiots, managed to arrange it such that the Student Union would not accept any cheques or any other kind of dealings with Barclay's Bank, because it presumably had branches over that way. This is the way our country is now because these people are running the show. Imagine seeing that going on. Indeed the locals used to take the piss out of them because of how dumb they would act.

[Major Sinic]

How about the French resistance in World War 2?  The sufragettes?



Terrorists?

 

OK How about them?

[papasmurf]

Yes but at the time France was occupied by the Nazis and under the control of an official French Vichy government.

Vichy France was separate to German occupied France:-



https://www.britannica.com/event/Vichy-France">https://www.britannica.com/event/Vichy-France



https://cdn.britannica.com/22/205622-050-BC257C58/Vichy-France-Germany-June-1940-armistice-map.jpg">

[Churchill]

Then why bother asking

[Javert]

The French Resistance were fighting a common enemy of the free world and were armed by the UK and directed by the UK therefore not terrorists an extension if you like of our armed forces, although some of the Communists Resistance Fighters did inform on other none Communist Resistance Groups



Suffragettes were considered terrorists at the time due to a bombing campaign in London St Paules Cathedral, Westminster Abbey, Railway Stations with small IED's

Yes but at the time France was occupied by the Nazis and under the control of an official French Vichy government.  From their perspective, no doubt these people were terrorists.



This is an extreme example, but it illustrates the point that whether someone is a terrorist or a freedom fighter fighting to free their people from oppression may not become entirely clear until much later.



You can see this in the example of the Suffragettes who were seen as terrorists at the time but are now seen as heroes.



One of the aspects of the compromises involved in the Good Friday Agreement was the recognition that the Republican cause in Ireland has a very strong moral and historical case behind it, and so does the Unionist cause, depending on your view and how far back in history you want to go.  The agreement attempts to create peace by recognising that they are both right.

[papasmurf]

The French Resistance were fighting a common enemy of the free world and were armed by the UK and directed by the UK therefore not terrorists an extension if you like of our armed forces, although some of the Communists Resistance Fighters did inform on other none Communist Resistance Groups

The French resistance is a very murky subject, some of the groups hated each other more than they did the Germans.

In Brittany it gets even murkier there was one Breton separatist group who would have been prepared to accept German occupation of the rest of France in exchange for Breton independence.

[Churchill]

How about the French resistance in World War 2?  The sufragettes?



Terrorists?

The French Resistance were fighting a common enemy of the free world and were armed by the UK and directed by the UK therefore not terrorists an extension if you like of our armed forces, although some of the Communists Resistance Fighters did inform on other none Communist Resistance Groups



Suffragettes were considered terrorists at the time due to a bombing campaign in London St Paules Cathedral, Westminster Abbey, Railway Stations with small IED's

[Javert]

:hattip With you there! We live in a society which likes to rewrite and reinterpret history. We find national heroes such as Cecil Rhodes pilloried and decried for being one of the greatest and most successful adventurers and creators of his time. Rhodesia was extensively created by Rhodes and offered its inhabitants both black and white the highest standards of living in Africa, before it fell prey to domestic corruption upon being granted independence.



Now we have Oxford students who will never be acclaimed for any great achievement, demanding that his statue be removed from public display and his name from public acclaim, despite the fact that he was one of Oxford University's most generous benefactors and many of his critics still benefit from his endowments today.

How about the French resistance in World War 2?  The sufragettes?



Terrorists?