Food choice.

[patman post]

Cox's Orange Pippin...?

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[Wiggles]

If a man presents you with an orange, and says it is an apple, you are justified in telling him that it is an apple, if he protests that you are forcing your belief on him, while hypocritically not allowing him to force his belief you on you - Consider which position is absurd (if you believe both are, then we fundamentally disagree).



Streetwalker is welcome to deny that other people's beliefs are their beliefs, but that is not something that is sensible (or desirable) in my opinion.

How could you possibly get an apple mixed up with an orange  

[Nalaar]

Eh? So it's your opinion that he doesn't get to decide what is or isn't a belief (even though you say it's a belief) but you deny him an opinion what constitutes someone's beliefs.



And he's borderline absurd :?:  

If a man presents you with an orange, and says it is an apple, you are justified in telling him that it is an apple, if he protests that you are forcing your belief on him, while hypocritically not allowing him to force his belief you on you - Consider which position is absurd (if you believe both are, then we fundamentally disagree).



Streetwalker is welcome to deny that other people's beliefs are their beliefs, but that is not something that is sensible (or desirable) in my opinion.

[cromwell]

Your statements here are borderline absurd - I don't think you get to decide if someone's else's belief is a belief or not.

Eh? So it's your opinion that he doesn't get to decide what is or isn't a belief (even though you say it's a belief) but you deny him an opinion what constitutes someone's beliefs.



And he's borderline absurd :?:  

[Streetwalker]

Your statements here are borderline absurd - I don't think you get to decide if someone's else's belief is a belief or not.

 People can have any belief that they want to , it doesn't mean I have to go along with it .

[Wiggles]

I didn't say I don't consider it a belief I said if their veganism had got that far that they considered it a belief then I wouldn't be respecting that belief . (try saying that after 6 pints )

If it were their choice then I would be respecting that choice as they would respect mine . As I have already alluded when it becomes a belief ,like religion, it rarely becomes a two way street .

How can I put this without sounding like a hippy with braided hair and a ban the bomb sign in the rear windscreen. From a personal point of view, and I have said this already, I respect your right to eat meat. I don't respect the right for any innocent animal to be mistreated. Most sensible people with a heart will agree with this sentiment.



Many animal lovers get very frustrated, and believe the way forward is by force of their beliefs. I understand their frustrations, but have been around long enough to know beliefs can't be forced on people, and in most cases opinions change when generations die out. Attempting to force ones beliefs on people rarely pays off, and this is why the liberals and snowflakes are so despised amongst normal people. If the planet doesn't disappear into a big pool of water, and  Islam doesn't take over the western world, you may be surprised how people's diet change over the next 50 years. Of course, neither of us will be able to prove our point  

[Nalaar]

I didn't say I don't consider it a belief I said if their veganism had got that far that they considered it a belief then I wouldn't be respecting that belief.

No I don't respect your beliefs on this matter because I don't see it as a belief...

Your statements here are borderline absurd - I don't think you get to decide if someone's else's belief is a belief or not.

[Streetwalker]

And why is someone's belief about what they should personally do not considered a belief in your opinion?

I didn't say I don't consider it a belief I said if their veganism had got that far that they considered it a belief then I wouldn't be respecting that belief . (try saying that after 6 pints )

If it were their choice then I would be respecting that choice as they would respect mine . As I have already alluded when it becomes a belief ,like religion, it rarely becomes a two way street .

[Nalaar]

In the veggies case it means that they believe (without proof)  that what they practice is what ALL humans should practice ...

And why is someone's belief about what they should personally do not considered a belief in your opinion?

[Streetwalker]

LOL. I drink far to much, and spent the last ten years of my working life driving a truck. I am a football season ticket holder, and my politics couldn't be any further right. I am also a sexist, misogynist, and some would say racist. You  described a type cast vegan, but fortunately the majority of us aren't anything like that.  Because I am your typical "geezer" doesn't mean I lack compassion.

I was pretty sure from your previous posts elsewhere that you were not a maypole dancing celery eating ,carnivore hating  greenie .   Im  curious though , when you were a trucker where did you stop for a bacon sandwich ?

[Streetwalker]

Can you define what you mean by the word "belief"?

In the veggies case it means that they believe (without proof)  that what they practice is what ALL humans should practice .  That meat eaters are basically the enemy of the planet (without proof) and that if everyone ate grass the world would be a better place , without proof . Its the without proof ,like religions that make it a belief .



Im not saying Wiggles is that extreme  but he mentioned respecting beliefs when I think he meant choice .

[Wiggles]

No I don't respect your beliefs on this matter because I don't see it as a belief but a food choice . That you go all weak at the knees at the thought of eating a nice piece of crackling or a tikka masala is not a belief its an illness . ::



Non meat eaters may live longer than carnivores but thats not because of the diet but because meat eaters tend to do other things that contribute like work outside , drink more alcohol or as you have said live further north .



 We also have the mindset of vegans being politically left wing a little cranky or school girls getting all upset over the sight of blood . Not sure which of those you fall into wiggles but I guess we can tick the latter under duress or did you give in without a fight ?

LOL. I drink far to much, and spent the last ten years of my working life driving a truck. I am a football season ticket holder, and my politics couldn't be any further right. I am also a sexist, misogynist, and some would say racist. You  described a type cast vegan, but fortunately the majority of us aren't anything like that.  Because I am your typical "geezer" doesn't mean I lack compassion.

[Nalaar]

No I don't respect your beliefs on this matter because I don't see it as a belief but a food choice .

Can you define what you mean by the word "belief"?

[Streetwalker]

It's a shame you can't respect other people's beliefs. I am a veggie, although probably a vegan by belief. Yep, that makes me a bit of hypocrite. I have been so for 56 of my 62 years. Gave it up when my sister told me where meat comes from, as I have never managed to get my head around chewing on the inside of an animal. I on the other hand have full respect for anyone who does eat meat, but would ask that when an animal's life comes to end, it is done quickly without pain, and has little stress as possible. Having recently spoken to an experienced vet, the vast majority of meat is now Halal, even though most people don't realise it. Apparently it just makes it easier for the slaughter houses to stick to one method, and it's thought most non Muslims don't really care.



Having been a veggie for so many years, I have done a lot of research. It always makes me laugh when a meat eater tries to explain to me that we should all eat meat, when in actual fact non meat eaters tend to live longer. For those of you who don't know, the answer to the question "should we eat meat" doesn't really have an answer. You see, we derive from a combination of up to five different homo sapiens, a few of which were veggie, and a few of which were omnivorous. We are therefore still evolving. If we don't destroy the planet first, at some point in the distant future it is possible we will be fully developed omnivorous creatures. In other words, the harm some meats now do us, won't do any longer. That said, the western world now eats a lot less meat per head, and as the younger generations come through, the split between meat eaters and non meat eaters will close. Research shows that between 12% and 20% of the UK public no longer eat meat, although I believe it is far nearer the 12% than the 20%. Of course, this is regional. Veggies in the south of the country are two a penny, whereas where I live in Lincolnshire it is extremely rare. Go to Scotland and they wouldn't even know what you were talking about.



Scientists are now growing meat in labs, and if they master this it won't just be good for the poor old animals, it will be pretty damn good for the planet. Like it or not, the diet in the western world is changing quite dramatically, and it's likely to change even further !

No I don't respect your beliefs on this matter because I don't see it as a belief but a food choice . That you go all weak at the knees at the thought of eating a nice piece of crackling or a tikka masala is not a belief its an illness . ::



Non meat eaters may live longer than carnivores but thats not because of the diet but because meat eaters tend to do other things that contribute like work outside , drink more alcohol or as you have said live further north .



 We also have the mindset of vegans being politically left wing a little cranky or school girls getting all upset over the sight of blood . Not sure which of those you fall into wiggles but I guess we can tick the latter under duress or did you give in without a fight ?

[Wiggles]

Well the stats say another 20% are considering going vegan don't imagine a quarter of Scots are Hindus.

Of course, considering and doing are very different. I am considering buying a Bentley Turbo, but doubt I ever will