THE NHS

[Wiggles]

I already told you i rate the scottish nhs so i dont know what more you want me to say?

I think you will find that the Scottish NHS has an even worse record than ours, and that's saying something. Of course, if it has Scottish as a prefix I suppose your going to love it regardless. Anyway, your wrong. Pop over to the Forum Box and you will find several people with a similar opinion to myself. Regrettably many people believe that the answer to a poor NHS is simply throwing money at it, and that couldn't be further than the truth. Regardless of the fact the NHS is a public service, it needs to be run  as a business with the emphasis on customer satisfaction. Unfortunately it is constantly as a political weapon with little interest in it's supposed purpose. We also need to stop seeing doctors and nurses as angels, and start judging them by their ability to carry out their work. There are many reasons we the UK has failed to control COVID, but we have chosen to ignore the fact clinical negligence may be one of them

[Thomas]

I already told you i rate the scottish nhs so i dont know what more you want me to say?

[Thomas]

I have a feeling it doesn't matter what the thread is about, it will end up back with Scottish independence

ok wibble lets try again. So far everyone in the thread disagrees with your false premise about the nhs in each of our countries as far as  i can make out , so over to you.



Just like everything else you post over most threads you appear to be out on an extreme limb on your own regarding the nhs in each country and its performance.

[Wiggles]

Mod Notice



Topic Temporarily Locked for Moderation.



Topic Reopened

Many off-topic posts moved to the Tower.

Please keep posts on topic, and free from insults.



If users want to discuss other topics (like English/Scottish economic history & future) I would encourage them to create a new thread to have that discussion.

I have a feeling it doesn't matter what the thread is about, it will end up back with Scottish independence

[Nalaar]

Mod Notice



Topic Temporarily Locked for Moderation.



Topic Reopened

Many off-topic posts moved to the Tower.

Please keep posts on topic, and free from insults.



If users want to discuss other topics (like English/Scottish economic history & future) I would encourage them to create a new thread to have that discussion.

[Thomas]

The NHS is the UK's sacred cow. London is currently covered with irony free ads telling us to stay at home and protect the NHS. Any suggestion that the NHS is there to keep us alive is entirely absent. I seemed to have picked up some sort of bug. I don't know what it is but my head aches, I am snorting like a horse and can crap through the eye of a needle. So I am going to self isolate on my allotment (provided I don't have a brown trouser job on the way) and dream of the days when I was 25 and nurses were pretty and competent and did not mind a bit of hanky panky while they waited on the chance of marrying a doctor. These days the ones at my local hospital dress like counter hands at Greggs but tend to be less competent.



Sooner or later the UK government will turn on the NHS and point out that it gobbles up one pound in every six collected in taxation and that it is time to stop making excuses and start acting like health service. This will happen later in Scotland than England because the former is run by the SNP which is socialist party reliant on buying off the voters with public sector jobs.

I hope you do turn on the nhs borkie , more power to my elbow.



I feel it for the young english though , with all you auld bitter brit nat geriatrics waving your butchers apron about  , voting to stuff europe ,  and kidding yourselves on you are financial whizzkids who have built up money off the back of good old socialists policies like free tuition , free healthcare , and maggie selling you all the old socialist council houses you bought for a few quid and now are worth millions.



 The english youth are being dragged into the gutter by the chelsea pensioners in charge of the bunting and vera lynn records.



The day england and your generation try and turn on scotlands nhs will be the day the union flag is lowered for eternity in my country.  The sooner the feckin better.

[Thomas]

That's it. I argued on another forum with some very hateful anti-scot types about the Scot NHS actually -



(Heh...reading it back, they're allowed to insult me - but my posts get deleted as soon as I shred em' with my much more insulting wit... fecking typical bullshit..)



Anyway"







Next up;





https://www.health.org.uk/publications/long-reads/health-and-social-care-funding">https://www.health.org.uk/publications/ ... re-funding">https://www.health.org.uk/publications/long-reads/health-and-social-care-funding







On to councils re social and other care..



https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/housing-communities-and-local-government-committee/news/local-govt-finance-report-published-17-19/">https://www.parliament.uk/business/comm ... hed-17-19/">https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/housing-communities-and-local-government-committee/news/local-govt-finance-report-published-17-19/







Useful graphs for the nutters on here;



https://ibb.co/JvJKMCS">

https://ibb.co/tLXWHxM">

https://ibb.co/f2cybk6">

https://imgbb.com/">

https://imgbb.com/">

https://imgbb.com/">

https://imgbb.com/">

https://movieplotholes.com/iron-man-3">iron man 1 2 3



(Apologies for my excessively verbose & graph-y post Thomas 😜 )

cheers for that dynamis , some interesting reading which will of course be dismissed.

[Borg Refinery]

Part of the explanation is the massive underfunding of the english nhs based of nthe long term average funding that the tories have ebgaged in since 2010.



Its not the whole reason , and from what little i have read they are many and varied , but it certainly is part of it.



No westminster government in my opinion is ever in the near future , neither red or blue tory , going to have the guts to publicly have a conversation on how to deal with the english nhs going forward.



Alll you are going to have is this continued chip chip chipping away and gradual dumbing down of services , which will under the current barnet forumla have repercussions for the scottish nhs too.

That's it. I argued on another forum with some very hateful anti-scot types about the Scot NHS actually -



(Heh...reading it back, they're allowed to insult me - but my posts get deleted as soon as I shred em' with my much more insulting wit... fecking typical bullshit..)



Anyway"

The whole bash the Jock thing is soooo boring too.

 1 second googling"



https://www.businessforscotland.com/scotlands-nhs-outperforms-the-rest-of-the-uk-heres-why/?doing_wp_cron=1581292194.5343470573425292968750">https://www.businessforscotland.com/sco ... 5292968750">https://www.businessforscotland.com/scotlands-nhs-outperforms-the-rest-of-the-uk-heres-why/?doing_wp_cron=1581292194.5343470573425292968750



(That should make earwig STFU but it won't)



And:



"

The neonatal death rate in Scotland (2016) was 1.69 per 1,000 live births; the UK average was 1.72. The extended perinatal death rate in Scotland (2016) was 5.36 per 1,000 total births; the UK average was 5.64.9 Sep 2019"



https://www.scotpho.org.uk/">https://www.scotpho.org.uk/

Next up;





https://www.health.org.uk/publications/long-reads/health-and-social-care-funding">https://www.health.org.uk/publications/ ... re-funding">https://www.health.org.uk/publications/long-reads/health-and-social-care-funding

In England, the strategy for the NHS – the NHS long term plan – is underpinned by a funding settlement up to 2023/24, with average annual increases of 3.3% a year, starting this year. But this is against a backdrop of significant hospital deficits, a maintenance backlog and workforce shortages – all flowing from previous inadequate investment.



The funding settlement doesn't cover the full budget for the NHS in England. Budgets for workforce education and training, public health and capital continue to have neither a plan nor long-term funding. Without further investment in these areas, quality and access to care are at risk of deteriorating further. As things stand, the total health budget will increase by just 2.9% a year to 2023/24.



Maintaining current standards of care will require funding for these areas to increase by at least 3.4% a year – £3bn of funding in 2023/24 above current announcements. Investing in and modernising the health service as set out in the NHS long term plan requires around 4.1% a year – a further £4bn above that figure.

On to councils re social and other care..



https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/housing-communities-and-local-government-committee/news/local-govt-finance-report-published-17-19/">https://www.parliament.uk/business/comm ... hed-17-19/">https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/housing-communities-and-local-government-committee/news/local-govt-finance-report-published-17-19/

Decade of funding cuts and uncertainty over financial settlement for 2020/21 has left council services at breaking point

Social care system on verge of collapse. Transport, culture, housing and planning spending slashed by over 40%.

Government must act quickly to end needless uncertainty over spending and provide a long term funding settlement to enable councils to provide high quality local services.

Funding gap for local authorities widely calculated at £5 billion and growing. 

Read the summary

Read the conclusions and recommendations

Read the full report: Local government finance and the 2019 Spending Review





From the report summary:





Looking further forward the LGA's analysis has estimated that by 2024–25 the funding gap will be around £8 billion.

Useful graphs for the nutters on here;



https://ibb.co/JvJKMCS">

https://ibb.co/tLXWHxM">

https://ibb.co/f2cybk6">

https://imgbb.com/">

https://imgbb.com/">

https://imgbb.com/">

https://imgbb.com/">

https://movieplotholes.com/iron-man-3">iron man 1 2 3



(Apologies for my excessively verbose & graph-y post Thomas 😜 )

[Wiggles]

The NHS has massive problems, most of them due to sheer size. My fairly recent 3 day stay for investigation really opened my eyes to the horrendous inefficiencies and wastage. I was shocked to the point where I sincerely hope that I am never required to repeat it.



My emergency arrival in the early evening to A&E with blue lights flashing started well but then it took 2 hours to get me pain relief which resulted in a morphine jab. Most of the 6 hours I spent there was with little attention very little feedback and a couple of tests. Shattered I was moved to the Med Assessment unit at about 1am and got myself to bed. At 2.30am a nurse arrived to take my particulars on a form. This was a repeat of the form I had already completed in A&E. At 3.30am a doctor arrived at my bedside with an update of tests already done and a list of those to follow. For both visits I shot awake. Sleep after that was hopeless. Continual arrivals and departures, nurses, porters and doctors talking loudly, laughing and generally inconsiderate of what was presumably a whole raft of sick people desperate for sleep made my heart sink.

In the morning another came with a repeat of the same form. By lunchtime they came to tell me that I would need to stay another night. I broke down. Desperately tired, uncomfortable and very stressed I could not face another sleepless night and said so.



Within a couple of hours they moved me to a post operative ward. The difference was unbelievable. Any checking by nurses was almost silent done with small torches through the night. The food throughout was inedible, but worse, had no allowance for dietary needs. By day 3 I pleaded to be allowed out. Two doctors arrived at different times with almost completely different diagnoses, admitting that they were not specialist in that field anyway. Since then I have had day surgery which was ok but aftercare has been completely absent.



An absence of a comprehensive IT system which links depts would save bodies being dispatched with repetitive forms for a start. Perhaps the NHS is trying to be too much for too many. Once you turn 60 the attention is markedly worse. I am prepared to believe that it is past its sell by date and intend to die at home.

Sorry to hear about your problems. Pop in to any hospital ward and it's not uncommon to see half a dozen stood around the nurses station complaining they have to much work to do. Ironic really.



Where I live it is close to impossible getting a doctors appointment. A few years ago they introduced a system where the only way to to see a doctor was to turn up and queue in the morning. To stand any chance of getting an appointment you had to turn up at 7am. Can you imagine, lines of old sick people stood in the freezing cold in the hope they could see a doctor.  If the receptionist decided you weren't ill enough, YES the receptionist, you were sent away, whilst others could wait up to mid day for their appointment. You could however book an appointment on line for future appointments if you were prepared to wait a few weeks. It's now changed. They have removed the online option and you have to ring up for everything. You may have to spend an hour waiting for someone to speak to you, and then only to be told there are no appointments. My last dealings with a hospital was under the last Labour government, and that's how I know things were equally as bad then. It would take 3 months just for an appointment with a specialist, and then six months for an operation. I ended up having two operations on my testicles for what turned out to be a bad back. Honestly, our NHS system is third world

[Wiggles]

Part of the explanation is the massive underfunding of the english nhs based of nthe long term average funding that the tories have ebgaged in since 2010.



Its not the whole reason , and from what little i have read they are many and varied , but it certainly is part of it.



No westminster government in my opinion is ever in the near future , neither red or blue tory , going to have the guts to publicly have a conversation on how to deal with the english nhs going forward.



Alll you are going to have is this continued chip chip chipping away and gradual dumbing down of services , which will under the current barnet forumla have repercussions for the scottish nhs too.

Per head of population Scotland get far more than England under the Barnett formula, and that's how you can afford all those little luxuries you get that we don't. Having to live amongst other Scots, I suppose you deserve something though. The NHS hasn't got any worse under the Tories, it was just as crap under the last Labour government. As stated in my thread, this isn't about politics, it's about how we feel about the NHS and why everyone is raving about it, when in reality it appears to be doing a pretty bad job. Not only are far to many people dying, hundreds of thousands of other people are suffering because they can't get the treatment they require. This has nothing to do with funding, this is because repeated governments have allowed the population to grow to quickly, something Scotland hasn't had to endure.



I accept that there is no such thing as a UK NHS, but as it is all primarily funded from English workers, it's pretty much the same thing.

[Borchester]

Part of the explanation is the massive underfunding of the english nhs based of nthe long term average funding that the tories have ebgaged in since 2010.



Its not the whole reason , and from what little i have read they are many and varied , but it certainly is part of it.



No westminster government in my opinion is ever in the near future , neither red or blue tory , going to have the guts to publicly have a conversation on how to deal with the english nhs going forward.



Alll you are going to have is this continued chip chip chipping away and gradual dumbing down of services , which will under the current barnet forumla have repercussions for the scottish nhs too.

In Scotland 3% of the population work for the NHS. In England it is only 2%. With such massive resources north of the border I can only assume that every Scot lives forever and that Boris will soon accept that what England really, really needs is advice from our Caledonian chums on how to run the health service.

[Thomas]

It sounds like NI's and England's system is falling to pieces then, that's really not good news is it.

Part of the explanation is the massive underfunding of the english nhs based of nthe long term average funding that the tories have ebgaged in since 2010.



Its not the whole reason , and from what little i have read they are many and varied , but it certainly is part of it.



No westminster government in my opinion is ever in the near future , neither red or blue tory , going to have the guts to publicly have a conversation on how to deal with the english nhs going forward.



Alll you are going to have is this continued chip chip chipping away and gradual dumbing down of services , which will under the current barnet forumla have repercussions for the scottish nhs too.

[papasmurf]

It's happening in reverse too - many care patients have been forced to sign forms saying they won't go hospital if they get c19. That iirc was from The Times.



It's....just awful.

It also explains this:-



https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/Press-releases-2020/May-2020/Legal-challenge-to-governments-lack-of-guidance-o">https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/Press-r ... guidance-o">https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/Press-releases-2020/May-2020/Legal-challenge-to-governments-lack-of-guidance-o



A legal challenge has been launched against the government for failing to use their emergency powers to ensure patients and their families understand how decisions are made about Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) orders in light of the current coronavirus pandemic. DNR

6 May 2020

[Borg Refinery]

I wouldn't extrapolate that form a single anecdote, but it's certainly a subject of concern if widespread.

Yup but google is bringing up a myriad of insane news, even from right wing rags.



eg



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/30/hospitals-unable-discharge-patients-care-homes-multi-million/amp/">https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegr ... llion/amp/">https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/30/hospitals-unable-discharge-patients-care-homes-multi-million/amp/



It's happening in reverse too - many care patients have been forced to sign forms saying they won't go hospital if they get c19. That iirc was from The Times.



It's....just awful.

[Nalaar]

It sounds like NI's and England's system is falling to pieces then, that's really not good news is it.

I wouldn't extrapolate that form a single anecdote, but it's certainly a subject of concern if widespread.