THE NHS

[Borg Refinery]

I have not heard that. In fact my partners mother has said that at her hospital they are having problems logistically trying to return patients to care homes, some of whom have been waiting to get discharged for weeks, but the homes won't/can't arrange transport.

It sounds like NI's and England's system is falling to pieces then, that's really not good news is it.

[DeppityDawg]

First of all you are starting off on a false premise.

Has he ever started anything on a true one?  ::  ::  ::

[T00ts]

The NHS has massive problems, most of them due to sheer size. My fairly recent 3 day stay for investigation really opened my eyes to the horrendous inefficiencies and wastage. I was shocked to the point where I sincerely hope that I am never required to repeat it.



My emergency arrival in the early evening to A&E with blue lights flashing started well but then it took 2 hours to get me pain relief which resulted in a morphine jab. Most of the 6 hours I spent there was with little attention very little feedback and a couple of tests. Shattered I was moved to the Med Assessment unit at about 1am and got myself to bed. At 2.30am a nurse arrived to take my particulars on a form. This was a repeat of the form I had already completed in A&E. At 3.30am a doctor arrived at my bedside with an update of tests already done and a list of those to follow. For both visits I shot awake. Sleep after that was hopeless. Continual arrivals and departures, nurses, porters and doctors talking loudly, laughing and generally inconsiderate of what was presumably a whole raft of sick people desperate for sleep made my heart sink.

In the morning another came with a repeat of the same form. By lunchtime they came to tell me that I would need to stay another night. I broke down. Desperately tired, uncomfortable and very stressed I could not face another sleepless night and said so.



Within a couple of hours they moved me to a post operative ward. The difference was unbelievable. Any checking by nurses was almost silent done with small torches through the night. The food throughout was inedible, but worse, had no allowance for dietary needs. By day 3 I pleaded to be allowed out. Two doctors arrived at different times with almost completely different diagnoses, admitting that they were not specialist in that field anyway. Since then I have had day surgery which was ok but aftercare has been completely absent.



An absence of a comprehensive IT system which links depts would save bodies being dispatched with repetitive forms for a start. Perhaps the NHS is trying to be too much for too many. Once you turn 60 the attention is markedly worse. I am prepared to believe that it is past its sell by date and intend to die at home.

[Thomas]

You appear to be obsessed with Scotland. My thread is about the UK NHS service.

I have already repsonded to this , maybe you are hard of reading , but there is no such entity as the "uk nhs" , and not only hasnt there been since 1999 , but even before that the scottish and english health systems were set up at different times.As isaid to you you are waffling on about soemthing that doesnt exist.

I accept there may be slight variations, but it's pretty much all the same. It doesn't matter if you live in Scotland, England, Wales, or N Ireland, all four countries have people stood outside on a Thursday night applauding a system that is obviously failing, and I don't get it !

FFS wiggles i know you live on the edge of a swamp in the middle of no where , but are you serisously arguing that this mythical bwitish nhs exists cause everyone across the disunited kingdom is applauding their health workers?



Most nations across europe if not the western world are doing similar , does that make them part of the bwitish health system too? ::

Regards your other comments. There was nobody, and I mean nobody asking for an earlier lock down, in fact it was s hock to most people it cam as early as it did.

You need to re read threads on this forum. The WHO were advising regional lockdowns and contac tracing back in the early part of the year , and from memory professor neil ferguson advised the uk government lockdown london and perform mass contact tracing for the rest of us back in frebruary.



So what are you going on about?

I for one believe we shouldn't have had a lock down at all, and as a result there will be far more deaths as we move forward over the next ten years, but that's another subject.

i think most of us on this forum are aware of your vile views on euthanising the elderly in one way or another , however , most sensible people just laugh at you.

Up until recently I would have agreed that locking down the borders was the obvious thing to do, however Italy and the USA were the first to do it, and it didn't work for them. Personally I would have closed down the borders 30 years ago, but that's different subject all together

you are rambling now into other territory , but as i keep saying , how are you going to control imigration in the new brit nat world order when you finally leave FOM and the eu when you cant even control your borders during a world wide pandemic?



You also mention two countires that suit your narrative , yet islands like new zealand succesfully managed to close down borders and halt the virus , yet the bwitish empire couldnt do it succesfully in their wee island off the coast of europe? I made the point repeatedly how its much easier for a wee island like englanshire to control its borders than a massive continental nation equivalent to the eu like america.

[Wiggles]

...and many of the europeans live longer than the english. Our poor mortality rate was a legacy of 80 years of labour rule in glasgow  , and it will take some time to get us back to normality and recover.







We want rid of the barnett forumla  , and to be fiscally independent , or dont you realise thats the whole point of being independent from you? We pay more in per head so it stands we take more out per head than you do , and still westminster manages to be a nett beneficiary from scottish finances.



This doesnt answer the point though , why is the scottish nhs better than englands health system disaster? Why arent you keeping all your imaginary english largesse ( :: ) for yourself to improve it?



 No we dont. ......and much of this so called imaginary deficit is money spent on "our behalf" by your english government and pasted onto dodgy accounting books to make scotland look bad.



In defence for example if scotland paid the eu average we would fork out £2 billion per annum , we currently pay you £3.3 billion , most of which is spent outside scotland by your leeching government. Come on wiggy , be a man and stand on your own two feet instead of leeching off other nations will you? ::







You should have clarified that which is why i had to explain politely to you there are four uk national health services that operate differently.



England isnt the uk wiggy , or is your geography as bad as your politics and economics?







False premise.



Third world countries with no national health service have a smaller death rate to englandshire , do you then think this means  their helath "system" or lack of one means this is better than the nhs?



There are many reasons why englandshire has a high covid 19 death rate. The english nhs isnt the cause , it merely treats the effects.



Preventon is better than cure , and if you had a government capable of locking down your borders and stopping infected foreigners coming in to an island , and locking down indovidual regions like londonshire early on , you might have been in a batter place. Feck all to do with the nhs.

You appear to be obsessed with Scotland. My thread is about the UK NHS service. I accept there may be slight variations, but it's pretty much all the same. It doesn't matter if you live in Scotland, England, Wales, or N Ireland, all four countries have people stood outside on a Thursday night applauding a system that is obviously failing, and I don't get it !



Regards your other comments. There was nobody, and I mean nobody asking for an earlier lock down, in fact it was s hock to most people it cam as early as it did. I for one believe we shouldn't have had a lock down at all, and as a result there will be far more deaths as we move forward over the next ten years, but that's another subject. Up until recently I would have agreed that locking down the borders was the obvious thing to do, however Italy and the USA were the first to do it, and it didn't work for them. Personally I would have closed down the borders 30 years ago, but that's different subject all together.

[Thomas]

Which no longer exists and we can't read it or refer to it. Get over it, there are members here who were never even on it.

Somebody is in a huff eh barry?



We feckin know all that , but unless you have senile dementia and cant remeber the last thing posted five feckin minutes ago , many of the forum members from the old place can remember the many topics we spent discussing it.



I havent in any way suggested we are banned from discussing it on here have i?

[Thomas]

Just thought I'd mention the English live 1.7 years longer on average, but I suppose that could go down to your love of battered Mars Bars  

...and many of the europeans live longer than the english. Our poor mortality rate was a legacy of 80 years of labour rule in glasgow  , and it will take some time to get us back to normality and recover.

Seriously though, I accept you get more buck for your money in Scotland, but that's down to the Barnett formula

We want rid of the barnett forumla  , and to be fiscally independent , or dont you realise thats the whole point of being independent from you? We pay more in per head so it stands we take more out per head than you do , and still westminster manages to be a nett beneficiary from scottish finances.



This doesnt answer the point though , why is the scottish nhs better than englands health system disaster? Why arent you keeping all your imaginary english largesse ( :: ) for yourself to improve it?

and the fact you have a massive deficit.

No we dont. ......and much of this so called imaginary deficit is money spent on "our behalf" by your english government and pasted onto dodgy accounting books to make scotland look bad.



In defence for example if scotland paid the eu average we would fork out £2 billion per annum , we currently pay you £3.3 billion , most of which is spent outside scotland by your leeching government. Come on wiggy , be a man and stand on your own two feet instead of leeching off other nations will you? ::

Anyway, this sin't about Scotland.

You should have clarified that which is why i had to explain politely to you there are four uk national health services that operate differently.



England isnt the uk wiggy , or is your geography as bad as your politics and economics?

My point is that the UK has the second highest death rate through COVID 10 yet we have millions of people singing the praises of the NHS.

False premise.



Third world countries with no national health service have a smaller death rate to englandshire , do you then think this means  their helath "system" or lack of one means this is better than the nhs?



There are many reasons why englandshire has a high covid 19 death rate. The english nhs isnt the cause , it merely treats the effects.



Preventon is better than cure , and if you had a government capable of locking down your borders and stopping infected foreigners coming in to an island , and locking down indovidual regions like londonshire early on , you might have been in a batter place. Feck all to do with the nhs.

[Javert]

​I heard on television this morning the reason so many people are dying in care homes is because they have been sent home early. There hasn't been a shortage of beds, especially with the Nightingale hospitals, so sending them home early can only be contributed to the incompetence of NHS staff.

Who from?  It was reported a week or two back the opposite - an instruction went out from the government to all hospitals to send them all back to the care homes.  There is actually an argument that this decision was taken in good faith at the time - the thinking may have been that those people are in more danger in hospital from contracting Covid-19 than back at the care home.  Unfortunately they didn't bother to test them when sending them back out.

[Wiggles]

Which no longer exists and we can't read it or refer to it. Get over it, there are members here who were never even on it.

Don't respond to it then, daaahhh

[Barry]

We have done this subject to death many a time on the old forum,

Which no longer exists and we can't read it or refer to it. Get over it, there are members here who were never even on it.

[Wiggles]

First of all you are starting off on a false premise. There are four nhs services in each of the four uk nations , operating differently.



I rate "our" scotish nhs very well. Its not perfect , and could be improved , but still its very good. We have free elderly care in scotland , you dont in england , we have free prescriptions , you dont , mainly free hosptial car parking  you dont , and we have nhs health boards , while your system is a mish mash of independent health trusts , with a postcode lottery on drugs and treatment.



If you are about to go on  some right wing jolly about privatising the english / wider uk nations health services dont bother.



In fact maybe you should Thinking about it. I cant imagine anything more suitable to drive every scottish man woman and child into the arms of the yes movement than some right wing english geriatric rabbiting on about how only private healthcare being the way forward.



As for a growing and elderly population  , every country in the developed world is having the same problem but still many are outperforming you  and your nhs , and your heros in america with their dodgy private healthcare system.



We have done this subject to death many a time on the old forum , France regualrly outperforms the rest of the world with its healthcare system. This is based on a part private , part nhs system. If any change were to come  , then i would imagine it would be something along those lines rather than the crap yank system.



However as i said , health in scotland is nothing to do with your country (outwith you control our purse strings unfortunately) and lets hope you never get back any direct form of control of our health system after the mess labour tory tennis has made of yours.

Just thought I'd mention the English live 1.7 years longer on average, but I suppose that could go down to your love of battered Mars Bars  



Seriously though, I accept you get more buck for your money in Scotland, but that's down to the Barnett formula, and the fact you have a massive deficit. You also have a higher COVID death rate per million than England.  Anyway, this sin't about Scotland. My point is that the UK has the second highest death rate through COVID 10 yet we have millions of people singing the praises of the NHS. If we had the dirties streets would we be applauding the road sweepers on a Thursday night ?

[Thomas]

Again, don't politicise this, the subject is about the quality of our NHS, NOT the political party in charge at any one time.  I am now in my sixties and can't remember it ever being any good, and I have lived through many governments, both red and blue. Most people understand that the growth in population has been far quicker than any health service could keep up with, although perhaps they don't. So how do you rate our NHS ??

First of all you are starting off on a false premise. There are four nhs services in each of the four uk nations , operating differently.



I rate "our" scotish nhs very well. Its not perfect , and could be improved , but still its very good. We have free elderly care in scotland , you dont in england , we have free prescriptions , you dont , mainly free hosptial car parking  you dont , and we have nhs health boards , while your system is a mish mash of independent health trusts , with a postcode lottery on drugs and treatment.



If you are about to go on  some right wing jolly about privatising the english / wider uk nations health services dont bother.



In fact maybe you should Thinking about it. I cant imagine anything more suitable to drive every scottish man woman and child into the arms of the yes movement than some right wing english geriatric rabbiting on about how only private healthcare being the way forward.



As for a growing and elderly population  , every country in the developed world is having the same problem but still many are outperforming you  and your nhs , and your heros in america with their dodgy private healthcare system.



We have done this subject to death many a time on the old forum , France regualrly outperforms the rest of the world with its healthcare system. This is based on a part private , part nhs system. If any change were to come  , then i would imagine it would be something along those lines rather than the crap yank system.



However as i said , health in scotland is nothing to do with your country (outwith you control our purse strings unfortunately) and lets hope you never get back any direct form of control of our health system after the mess labour tory tennis has made of yours.

[Nalaar]

Every Thursday night we have millions of people stood on their doorsteps like idiots applauding people who can't hear them.

Any key worker who isn't working on a Thursday night will hear

You lefties

You lefties? In your own words - "don't politicise this"

I heard on television this morning the reason so many people are dying in care homes is because they have been sent home early.

I have not heard that. In fact my partners mother has said that at her hospital they are having problems logistically trying to return patients to care homes, some of whom have been waiting to get discharged for weeks, but the homes won't/can't arrange transport.

[papasmurf]

I can't fault the NHS locally. In normal circumstances I can get an appointment with a doctor the same day or within a few days.

I get called in for regular check ups with various specialist nurses several time a year.

The only real pain is if I or my wife have to go to Treliske hospital  for an out patient appointment. I stopped trying to park in the hospital car park a long time ago, the parking fees are more like a mortgage payment.

[Wiggles]

​Sorry if this upsets anyone, but I'm going to say it anyone. Every Thursday night we have millions of people stood on their doorsteps like idiots applauding people who can't hear them. I am sick of being told how wonderful our NHS is, especially as we have the highest death toll in Europe as a result of COVID, and second worst in the world. You lefties out there are no doubt going to blame the government for lack of funding, mainly because you have no concept of finance. However, that is neither here nor there, the NHS is the NHS, and goes further than the doctors or nurses. I heard on television this morning the reason so many people are dying in care homes is because they have been sent home early. There hasn't been a shortage of beds, especially with the Nightingale hospitals, so sending them home early can only be contributed to the incompetence of NHS staff. From a personal point of view, my own experiences with the NHS have been terrible, almost to the point of third world treatment. They aren't bad at sorting you out if you have a life threatening disease, but anything else is a hit and miss situation. If your unlucky enough to require a knee or hip operation, good luck. If you are unlucky enough to have a mental health problem, it's possible you may go completely nus before you get to see anyone. Even getting a doctors appointment is a task in it's self, and it just shouldn't be.







Again, don't politicise this, the subject is about the quality of our NHS, NOT the political party in charge at any one time.  I am now in my sixties and can't remember it ever being any good, and I have lived through many governments, both red and blue. Most people understand that the growth in population has been far quicker than any health service could keep up with, although perhaps they don't. So how do you rate our NHS ??