Stay Alert anybody the wiser?

[johnofgwent]

We have a four nation approach because that exactly what we have .....four nations in one multi national state john. The problem is we have the british brainwashing coporation pumping one nations propaganda  into the living rooms of the other three.



If we had devolved broadcasting , we wouldnt have the problem of listening to the bbc broadcast tedious shite that only applies in england into scottish or welsh living rooms. During this whole coronavirus pandemic i have lost count of the amount of times this has been flagged up. Thats where the confusion lies , this half hearted devolution where westminster tries to keep or claw back as much central control over as much as it can.







Well this works both ways john.



You dont respect the 1997 referndums results in scotland and wales for devolution , so why should we therefore respect your 2016 brexit referendum result?

You know i argued along these lines with remainers for many a year about this time and again.If you only respect democracy when it suits , you have chaos.



You lost the 1997 referendum , so have to accept the days of the old shitty multi national unitary state are over with centralised decisions being made by the de facto english parliament.



...on your last point , i think welsh business will probably be more worried about the damage your brexit is going to cause them than some week or two timelapse between starting back up after covid 19 compared to england.



Cut the english suppliers out of the game if they start moaning , and broaden your horizons. Theres 7 billion people out there in 200 countries to both supply or buy from you , and you are worried about 55 million english?



I bet welsh business are more worried about losing supplies and buyers from 500 million europeans on your doorstep.

The reason I mention the specifics is my employer supplies six english busineses with parts made onsite from materials sourced partly in england, and partly from china. It will be amusing starting back



And you misunderstand my appropach to devolution. I want a new referendum. We have been forced to vote on whether we wanted the nepotistic (take a close look at some of the tenders they'e done) corrupt (google mohammed asghar) racists (try tendering in english) in cardiff bay to have more powers, yet they refused to give us one offering the option to scrap the shit hole.



I've tried twice to raise a petition to scrap it, and one of those with a title "abolish the welsh assembly" was denied onthe grounds i had not made it clear what i wanted the government to do.



I've made my position on scottish devolution and independence starkly clear. I think you're mad, but if that it what you really want, and if the terms and conditions are properly and clearly put, unlike the obfuscated crap Salmand uttered, then so be it. anyway, you had your vote, and you voted to stay part of the union. I did not have mine, it was interfered with and could not be replaced. My complaints to the police fell of deaf ears. But then my complaint that my vote had been intercepted and was sitting in the election office in 2005 with a forged signature on it fell on deaf ears too. Labour governments have a habit of ignoring the law when it comes to making sure they get re-elected.

[Streetwalker]

It sounded like Boris wanted to use the manual workers as test dummies  to me . He tells us at ten past seven on Sunday that we are back to work on Monday morning . Yer OK Ill have some of that wont I ?  

Look thanks very much , most of us are covered till the end of the month with the corona payment so it will only be those without a tax history who will be attending , these are the same guys that have been working anyway so no change there



The Mrs who works for a large construction company and is on the furlong thing has just been told to stay at home till the end of the month .



Looks like in my world anyway that its time for another vodka .  

[Thomas]

The BBC can pump as much as it likes, everyone has a choice and mine is not to tune in. That is all.

Yes by what is the point in some centralised broadcasting coporation in england pumping out " national " news of events in england , or laws which only apply in england to scottish welsh and irish living rooms?



Johns answer is to throw the baby out wae the bath water , turn the clocks back and go against the will of the 75% of the scot electorate who voted for devolution , while at the same time telling me i have to respect the will of the 52% who voted leave.



We see time and again the confusion that reins when aunti announces things that dont apply in each of our countries , while continuing to put a brave face on the long gone old centralised unitary state.



So surely the solution would be like the spanish regiuons to devolve broadcasting , but of course we all know why they wont.



Its along running battle up here barry , which indeed has led to massive refusal to pay the licence , and the constant calls falling on deaf ears to devolve broadcasting.



Further ex bbc employees at pacific quay have spoken over the years about a climate of fear and intimidation of what was being broadcast and reported , with everything having to be run past london for approval.



Many scots during the indy ref and post events were having to tune into foreign news broadcasters to see  events in our own country being reported , like the mass demonstrations outside pacific quay.



Remember back in the day when al megrahi was released from prison , and auntie had news reportes saying he was on the run with gaddaffis regime during the libyan war , and you flicked onto the other channels on satellite tv and american news agencies were reporting him laying in his death bed with family at his side .



Vladimir putin famously said he learned everything he knows about propaganda from the british.



I think you got a taste of it over brexit didnt you . Poor old auntie , her star has fallen far and fast. 8-)



So no i dont tune in at all , but i jump in at every chance to give her a kicking.

[Thomas]

Did I see you commenting on someone's spelling yesterday?  :ZIP:

No what i said was its laughable when a scot has to teach and englishman how to spell in his own language.



Im a pretty good speller   in  your english barry , considering its your language. However im also a fast typer , and typos do occur during the cut and thrust of debate and posting.



I found wiggys spelling more funny than anything , unlike you  , who is more concerned with the proper spelling and pronunciation of your queens english.



The english language means nothing to me  , its a tool , nothing more. Thats doesnt mean you cant have a bit of fun and leg pulling at wiggys expense..... :roll:  ::

[Borg Refinery]

We have a four nation approach because that exactly what we have .....four nations in one multi national state john. The problem is we have the british brainwashing coporation pumping one nations propaganda  into the living rooms of the other three.



If we had devolved broadcasting , we wouldnt have the problem of listening to the bbc broadcast tedious shite that only applies in england into scottish or welsh living rooms. During this whole coronavirus pandemic i have lost count of the amount of times this has been flagged up. Thats where the confusion lies , this half hearted devolution where westminster tries to keep or claw back as much central control over as much as it can.







Well this works both ways john.



You dont respect the 1997 referndums results in scotland and wales for devolution , so why should we therefore respect your 2016 brexit referendum result?

You know i argued along these lines with remainers for many a year about this time and again.If you only respect democracy when it suits , you have chaos.



You lost the 1997 referendum , so have to accept the days of the old shitty multi national unitary state are over with centralised decisions being made by the de facto english parliament.



...on your last point , i think welsh business will probably be more worried about the damage your brexit is going to cause them than some week or two timelapse between starting back up after covid 19 compared to england.



Cut the english suppliers out of the game if they start moaning , and broaden your horizons. Theres 7 billion people out there in 200 countries to both supply or buy from you , and you are worried about 55 million english?



I bet welsh business are more worried about losing supplies and buyers from 500 million europeans on your doorstep.

Wow Thomas.  :hattip  :: That is spock-worthy, I can't see any possible way folks could refute it.



I almost feel bad for other posters on here sometimes re what they're up against.  ::

[Barry]

We have a four nation approach because that exactly what we have .....four nations in one multi national state john. The problem is we have the british brainwashing coporation pumping one nations propaganda  into the living rooms of the other three.

Did I see you commenting on someone's spelling yesterday?  :ZIP:

The BBC can pump as much as it likes, everyone has a choice and mine is not to tune in. That is all.

[Thomas]

The problem is we have a 'four nations' approach on this not one country's. As a result, as with many things, the BBC broadcast what applies to England and then a bunch of pompous tweets in wales who conspired to bring about treason over brexit jumping and down and whine that wales is still closed.



Time for a bit of a change.



Otherwise we will see Welsh businesses with english suppliers and clients being told to get withbthe programme and restarting or face losing the work...

We have a four nation approach because that exactly what we have .....four nations in one multi national state john. The problem is we have the british brainwashing coporation pumping one nations propaganda  into the living rooms of the other three.



If we had devolved broadcasting , we wouldnt have the problem of listening to the bbc broadcast tedious shite that only applies in england into scottish or welsh living rooms. During this whole coronavirus pandemic i have lost count of the amount of times this has been flagged up. Thats where the confusion lies , this half hearted devolution where westminster tries to keep or claw back as much central control over as much as it can.

As a result, as with many things, the BBC broadcast what applies to England and then a bunch of pompous tweets in wales who conspired to bring about treason over brexit jumping and down and whine that wales is still closed.

Well this works both ways john.



You dont respect the 1997 referndums results in scotland and wales for devolution , so why should we therefore respect your 2016 brexit referendum result?

You know i argued along these lines with remainers for many a year about this time and again.If you only respect democracy when it suits , you have chaos.



You lost the 1997 referendum , so have to accept the days of the old shitty multi national unitary state are over with centralised decisions being made by the de facto english parliament.



...on your last point , i think welsh business will probably be more worried about the damage your brexit is going to cause them than some week or two timelapse between starting back up after covid 19 compared to england.



Cut the english suppliers out of the game if they start moaning , and broaden your horizons. Theres 7 billion people out there in 200 countries to both supply or buy from you , and you are worried about 55 million english?



I bet welsh business are more worried about losing supplies and buyers from 500 million europeans on your doorstep.

[johnofgwent]

The problem is we have a 'four nations' approach on this not one country's. As a result, as with many things, the BBC broadcast what applies to England and then a bunch of pompous tweets in wales who conspired to bring about treason over brexit jumping and down and whine that wales is still closed.



Time for a bit of a change.



Otherwise we will see Welsh businesses with english suppliers and clients being told to get withbthe programme and restarting or face losing the work...

[Javert]

I thought it was clear enough that if the R increased we would respond appropriately. I expect full details of what each alert level means and requires if us will be published soon.







There will be plenty of time afterwards to look into the failures to take action (and the failures of the action taken) I think Johnson's statement of 'it could of been much worse' is aimed squarely at those who don't think we should of locked down at all.

OK well my perception is that the language is not firm enough and is watered down by concerns about keeping the Conservative party united (surprise surprise).



Canada for example has published very clear charts showing that the second certain stats are breached, they would revert back to the previous level, and each change would be monitored for 3 full weeks before any further changes were made.  This is what Boris Johnson should be saying as well.  It's pretty clear reading between the lines that this is the intention anyway, so I agree on that, but why explain it in such fuzzy terms?



Take a look at the 5 tests they have been talking about for the last few weeks, and these new alert levels. If I submitted those to my manager at work as my goals, he would rightly say - I can't measure you on these. There are no time limits, no actual measures of when the different tests are met or when the alert level is triggered. It all sounds great, but it leaves the government completely free to make up what "alert level 3" means however they feel like it. Now maybe they will publish the details behind that today, but I guess we'll see.



I think the issue of waiting till later to take action about past failures is a tricky one.  If we are dealing with honest, scrupulous and fair minded honourable folk, I would agree.  However, we are not.  That's why I think it's right that the opposition should push for a clear black and white commitment to an independently led public inquiry, to be completed before the end of 2021, with the terms of reference of this inquiry also decided independently.



If they don't push for this, the government will be able to kick it down the road until they are out of power anyway and it doesn't matter anymore.

[Borg Refinery]

Clear as mud,what a load of old cobblers.

It's not just you pal.



https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-johnson-to-give-more-detail-on-unclear-and-confused-lockdown-plan-11986301">https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... n-11986301">https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-johnson-to-give-more-detail-on-unclear-and-confused-lockdown-plan-11986301



Seems you're getting more info from him - always good to press him for details, but it'll be more bluster anyway most likely.......

[Nalaar]

Are you serious?  There are 5 alert levels, of which only 2 were actually defined with the rest unlabelled.  Unlike Canada for example, there was no explicit warning - if R level goes up too much we will revert back to the previously level.

I thought it was clear enough that if the R increased we would respond appropriately. I expect full details of what each alert level means and requires if us will be published soon.

There was a claim that having less than half a million deaths constitutes success, when half the deaths up to now could have been avoided by instituting the lockdown 11 days earlier when scientists advised it

There will be plenty of time afterwards to look into the failures to take action (and the failures of the action taken) I think Johnson's statement of 'it could of been much worse' is aimed squarely at those who don't think we should of locked down at all.

[Javert]

I thought it was clear enough.

I like the idea of the Alert level tracking.



I was less impressed by the grandstanding of thanking x, y, and z for the work they were doing, but i suspect that it an expected formality that would of been discussed heavily if absent, and if it brings comfort to some then fair enough.

Are you serious?  There are 5 alert levels, of which only 2 were actually defined with the rest unlabelled.  Unlike Canada for example, there was no explicit warning - if R level goes up too much we will revert back to the previously level.



There was a claim that having less than half a million deaths constitutes success, when half the deaths up to now could have been avoided by instituting the lockdown 11 days earlier when scientists advised it.



The changes announced were not really changes as they are completely consistent with the existing law brought in - e.g. even under today's emergency law there is nothing to stop you going to to exercise all day if you want, as I pointed out on the other thread.



Changes in "go to work if you can't work from home" were also not even changes - that was already the rule before.



I suppose we might get some more details tomorrow that are actually specific, but we will see.



All that said, it's too early to release the lockdown so he is right - the real question I suppose, is why is it that for the last 5 days before this we were bombarded by leaked information suggesting there would be more significant changes, which appeared to be from press briefings from UK Gov't?  Why put out briefings about big changes when actually nothing is changing?  



Why is it that this information is first given to right wing newspapers that hardly anybody in terms of percent of the population reads?  Why is it that even tonight, the details are being leaked to those same newspapers?  This is not crisis management, they are treating this like a PR election campaign.

[Barry]

It's quite clear that all those dials with needles wavering about is what we need to take stock of.

As long as it doesn't go over warp factor 1.0 we're good to go go go.

[T00ts]

It would have been better to just say "as you were" statement made for the sake of it to look as if action is happening.

I don't think that was possible. He would have been even more criticised, although no matter what anyone does worldwide it is all up for the same sort of criticism. Let's face it they are up a creek without a paddle because without the right testing/vaccine there is no way out without further life loss.

[Nalaar]

I thought it was clear enough.

I like the idea of the Alert level tracking.



I was less impressed by the grandstanding of thanking x, y, and z for the work they were doing, but i suspect that it an expected formality that would of been discussed heavily if absent, and if it brings comfort to some then fair enough.