British negotiator gives EU two-week deadline to drop ‘ideological’ stance

[GerryT]

Yup.



And I just read Ireland's a net contributor to the EU. And what about its ridiculous GDP growth levels a few years back etc etc. Anyway, this thread belongs to you guys now.  ::

Thanks but for all the miss informed dribble Stevlin posts there is one piece of info that is correct. Irl has done very well out of the EU. nett we are up about 40b, but since we became a nett contributor, over the coming decades the EU will not only get that back but will have helped what was a third world country turn itself around to be a well developed and contributing member country of the EU. Thus with time making the EU as a unit stronger and as even more less developed members benefit from EU development programmes the EU gets better for everyone.



The irony of this is the smaller member countries of the UK union, namely wales and NI and to some extent Scotland have not fared as well as England has. From the outside the EU is a far better union to be a member of than the UK. I think Stevlins way of looking at things is the smaller states should be paying England for the generosity of being a member of the UK.

[Borg Refinery]

Lets not do history again, but yes its well know that what some call the Irish famine was a potato blight. Just potato's not other foods. The UK Govt used Ireland as a garden to produce food for GB. The Irish were given such small pieces of land the only food crop they could grow was potato's. When the crop failed the answer to this was not to give the Irish some of the food that was at abundance on the Island, the answer was to send in more troops to protect the food and make sure it was shipped to GB while the locals starved and died in ditches. The good old days of the great british empire.



Stevlin, you should know this, it's your history as much as it is mine, but you haven't a clue what the past generations of your family did, and you don't seem to want to know. Putting in a link to explain that the famine was a potato blight is very basic stuff.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1997/09/27/the-irish-famine-complicity-in-murder/5a155118-3620-4145-951e-0dc46933b84a/">https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... 46933b84a/">https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1997/09/27/the-irish-famine-complicity-in-murder/5a155118-3620-4145-951e-0dc46933b84a/

Yup.



And I just read Ireland's a net contributor to the EU. And what about its ridiculous GDP growth levels a few years back etc etc. Anyway, this thread belongs to you guys now.  ::

[GerryT]

Re-read your history.....There isn't usually an abundance of food when there is a famine....

Lets not do history again, but yes its well know that what some call the Irish famine was a potato blight. Just potato's not other foods. The UK Govt used Ireland as a garden to produce food for GB. The Irish were given such small pieces of land the only food crop they could grow was potato's. When the crop failed the answer to this was not to give the Irish some of the food that was at abundance on the Island, the answer was to send in more troops to protect the food and make sure it was shipped to GB while the locals starved and died in ditches. The good old days of the great british empire.



Stevlin, you should know this, it's your history as much as it is mine, but you haven't a clue what the past generations of your family did, and you don't seem to want to know. Putting in a link to explain that the famine was a potato blight is very basic stuff.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1997/09/27/the-irish-famine-complicity-in-murder/5a155118-3620-4145-951e-0dc46933b84a/">https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... 46933b84a/">https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1997/09/27/the-irish-famine-complicity-in-murder/5a155118-3620-4145-951e-0dc46933b84a/

[Stevlin]

Well the last time the UK spoon fed the Irish they managed to murder 1 million, in a time when Ireland had an abundance of food, and a further 1 million had to leave the country. So thanks but we'll feed ourselves.

Re-read your history.....There isn't usually an abundance of food when there is a famine....

Great Famine

FAMINE, IRELAND [1845–1849]

WRITTEN BY: Joel Mokyr

See Article History



Great Famine, also called Irish Potato Famine, Great Irish Famine, or Famine of 1845–49, famine that occurred in Ireland in 1845–49 when the potato crop failed in successive years. The crop failures were caused by late blight, a disease that destroys both the leaves and the edible roots, or tubers, of the potato plant. The causative agent of late blight is the water mold Phytophthora infestans. The Irish famine was the worst to occur in Europe in the 19th century.

[Stevlin]

Well the last time the UK spoon fed the Irish they managed to murder 1 million, in a time when Ireland had an abundance of food, and a further 1 million had to leave the country. So thanks but we'll feed ourselves.

'Wrong - you've been getting spoonfed by the EU for decades....and the UK has been one of the principal funders of the EU...just because you are now seemingly on a stable economic footing doesn't mean that you won't miss the high volume of trade that the you have with the UK....at least we Brits realise that leaving the EU will initially be costly....but it  will undoubtedly be worth it .... if it takes place....and leaving WITHOUT a deal is a damn sight more preferable that remaining in that damned undemocratic political institution.

[Stevlin]

The cost of leaving the EU is expected to hit 200b by the end of this year and that's before you even leave. SO leaving the EU by that point will have cost more than the EU paid into the EU over it's life as a member. There are no signs of the EU breaking, quite the opposite, only signs of the UK breaking apart. You only fear the EU because you have zero understanding of what it is and how it works. I've tried explaining it to you but your not interested. It's why you call a democratic organisation undemocratic. You want to leave, that's fine. The EU won't stop or punish you, it will continue to look to trade with you, just on a different level. The UK will be a non member and will be treated the same as all other non members. It will get no special treatment, get used to that, all other countries you do deals with will be the same.





Well the last time the UK spoon fed the Irish they managed to murder 1 million, in a time when Ireland had an abundance of food, and a further 1 million had to leave the country. So thanks but we'll feed ourselves.

LOl - the cost of the corona virus has dwarfed any cost benefits of membership of the EU, so it is plainly ridiculous to cite any cost associated with leaving the EU. Sovereignty is 'priceless' as someone once stated....but you don't even even appear to have the sense to understand what democracy is, judging by your comment. However, for your education, a democracy is a system by which a 'DEMOCRATIC' country requests an electorate to vote for their preferred of policies for governance,  by which they would prefer to be governed.

Sovereign states tend to do that....but the EU is a group of states which are no longer sovereign, because each state is governed by legislation which have been formulated by non-nationals  of their state - and that supranational Executive legislation has PRIMACY of any democratically proposed by the democratically elected National Executive.



You haven't been feeding yourselves for decades....you've been getting spoon fed by the EU for decades as I said.....

[GerryT]

Hum indeed....naturally, a tariff free 'source' of trade is good for business, and therefore the economy...but, that works two ways, and it isn't as if such access is 'free' - it is very costly, and not just in financial terms....but in any event, the UK managed for many years without such a political entity - and it will do so again...but as ever, you ignore the beneficial trade potential with the many non-EU countries , which in time could well more than compensate - especially so as it will break the ridiculous undemocratic political yoke.

The cost of leaving the EU is expected to hit 200b by the end of this year and that's before you even leave. SO leaving the EU by that point will have cost more than the EU paid into the EU over it's life as a member. There are no signs of the EU breaking, quite the opposite, only signs of the UK breaking apart. You only fear the EU because you have zero understanding of what it is and how it works. I've tried explaining it to you but your not interested. It's why you call a democratic organisation undemocratic. You want to leave, that's fine. The EU won't stop or punish you, it will continue to look to trade with you, just on a different level. The UK will be a non member and will be treated the same as all other non members. It will get no special treatment, get used to that, all other countries you do deals with will be the same.

You lot in Eire may even have to revert to getting spoon fed by the UK again......

Well the last time the UK spoon fed the Irish they managed to murder 1 million, in a time when Ireland had an abundance of food, and a further 1 million had to leave the country. So thanks but we'll feed ourselves.

[Stevlin]

So we agree, the uk in no way is being punished....and the uk in no way is any way reliant on the 40% of all uk trade done with the eu. Hum.

Hum indeed....naturally, a tariff free 'source' of trade is good for business, and therefore the economy...but, that works two ways, and it isn't as if such access is 'free' - it is very costly, and not just in financial terms....but in any event, the UK managed for many years without such a political entity - and it will do so again...but as ever, you ignore the beneficial trade potential with the many non-EU countries , which in time could well more than compensate - especially so as it will break the ridiculous undemocratic political yoke.



You lot in Eire may even have to revert to getting spoon fed by the UK again......

[Stevlin]

I don't think so. My understanding is the UK was and still is looking for a deal that resembles a very close relationship without the ties that such a relationship would require. If a simple FTA is required then something like the canada deal is available. But the UK want's so much more.

Hardly surprising that your 'understanding' is somewhat lobsided. The UK has indeed attempted to arrange a Canada type deal, but the EU won't accept it without their usual 'EU strings' and ridiculous 'fishing' rights demands.

So whats really happening is the UK not getting what it wants and saying that the EU is punishing the UK

. Lol - yet further evidence that you only believe what you wish to believe....https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/781481/Brexit-talks-juncker-theresa-may-article">https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/78 ... ay-article">https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/781481/Brexit-talks-juncker-theresa-may-article..

If the EU wanted to punish the UK it would refuse a trade deal, refuse services and start targeting UK business to leave the UK and setup base in the EU. But that's not happening and he UK is not being punished.

Oh do stop talking such rot!  The EU is NOT a bona fide 'trade' concept...it is a political entity, and if the UK leave and prosper, then other 'contributing' countries may also wish to follow suit. The relatively  few countries that pay for the EU to prop up weak economies like Ireland was for decades may wish  to follow suit. Even you should be able to see that!

[Nick]

So we agree, the uk in no way is being punished....and the uk in no way is any way reliant on the 40% of all uk trade done with the eu. Hum.

You're mixing up intent and reality.



It's not even in doubt that the EU wants to, and thinks it can punish the UK. The reality is they can't.



So Gerry, if being in the EU is so fantastic and we will be far worse off out, why does the EU want a fair playing field agreement?

[GerryT]

The EU can't punish us, you're being ridiculous. Like I've said a million times, there is nothing the EU has that we can't get anywhere else.

So we agree, the uk in no way is being punished....and the uk in no way is any way reliant on the 40% of all uk trade done with the eu. Hum.

[Nick]

I don't think so. My understanding is the UK was and still is looking for a deal that resembles a very close relationship without the ties that such a relationship would require. If a simple FTA is required then something like the canada deal is available. But the UK want's so much more.



So whats really happening is the UK not getting what it wants and saying that the EU is punishing the UK.



If the EU wanted to punish the UK it would refuse a trade deal, refuse services and start targeting UK business to leave the UK and setup base in the EU. But that's not happening and he UK is not being punished.



But if you think it is please elaborate and give some examples

The EU can't punish us, you're being ridiculous. Like I've said a million times, there is nothing the EU has that we can't get anywhere else.

[GerryT]

Not yet we aren't......we are still in the EU until the end of the year, and we still don't know what concessions will be made to avoid a 'no deal'...

Concessions by who

[GerryT]

Very true...but there are nearly 200 countries to source food from, WITHOUT having to subsidise and cede elements of sovereignty to a very minor group of countries - even if they are our neighbours.....and clearly, the UK does provide a lucrative market to the EU.....just ask Gerry  - but I wouldn't claim that Ireland would suffer as a result of Brexit....distances for goods to travel nowadays are from from being the handicap that it used to be - and sensible countries reach mutually advantageous Trade agreements - without requiring the use of a ridiculous supranational Parliament .... of course, they aren't hell bent on forming their equivalent of a United States of Europe, merely promoting trade growth.

Yes you can stop sourcing food from countries on your door step and tariff free/hassle free/legally protected/quality protected. And you can go buy food from thousands of miles away, with tariffs and no regulation and no means of legal recourse. Good luck with that

Distance for goods is a massive barrier, most countries trade with their neighbours, but the UK is about to rewrite the rule book.

You can have the trade deal you talk about, a "canada" deal tomorrow but your politicians aren't happy with that. They seem to think the cherry picking route is the way to go, a bit of each existing countries deal, a bit here, a bit there. It's just nonsense.

[GerryT]

Well I can certainly recall that Junker was associated with 'a desire' to ensure that the UK were 'punished' to discourage other countries from following suit.

I don't think so. My understanding is the UK was and still is looking for a deal that resembles a very close relationship without the ties that such a relationship would require. If a simple FTA is required then something like the canada deal is available. But the UK want's so much more.



So whats really happening is the UK not getting what it wants and saying that the EU is punishing the UK.



If the EU wanted to punish the UK it would refuse a trade deal, refuse services and start targeting UK business to leave the UK and setup base in the EU. But that's not happening and he UK is not being punished.



But if you think it is please elaborate and give some examples