British negotiator gives EU two-week deadline to drop ‘ideological’ stance

[GerryT]

Thats not what you had written. You said all countries who trade with the EU had to abide by their laws. That isn't true.

No I didn't, I said if you sell into the EU you follow EU rules. I didn't say Laws. But the point I was making to Stevlin is when the UK leaves it doesn't just do what it wants. If it want's to trade under an agreed FTA with any large trading partner it will have to seed some sovereignty, and so will it's trading partner. Otherwise how can you have common ground, dispute resolution, standards etc.. Brexit won't bring a utopia, the big fallacy of brexit was some people thinking they would regain total control. But that's not the world any country lives in today.

And the issue the EU have with the UK is that if you have open borders, you don't have customs checks at that border and as such if standards are not the same you can make a product "Without the EU stamp" and sell it in Ireland. But for the UK if they have to abide by the ECJ they then can't sell cheap shoddy sh*t to America making Brexit pointless. The solution would be a border in the Irish Sea. But the DUP said no.

There is a border in the Irish sea, or there will be, even the UK Govt have admitted that in recent days. Johnson agreed to this in the WA, which is a legally binding treaty. In this case the UK have said they will put border checks at the NI ports. NI will remain in the CU and as such will be fully compliant with EU laws and the EU CE marking/employment laws/consumer rights. Effectively keeping NI in the EU, not quite, but in general terms that's whats happening.



But this is a great thing for NI, they are also part of the UK and as such any trade deals the UK agree, NI can take advantage of. They hold an envious position of being a part of two unions, he EU and the UK.



As for manufacturing to multiple standards, companies do this all the time, lets say you produce paracetamol tablets, if you sell into the EU you have to comply with local regulatory bodies in member states, as they are harmonised in IRL that would be the IMB. But to sell that product into USA you have to comply with their standards set by the FDA. Leaving the EU makes it a massive headache for UK manufacturing because making products for multiple standrads pushes up costs even when those standards are of a lower quality. EU IS standards are recognised bilaterally around the world, so EU manufacturers that comply with this can sell into many countries. The UK standards or BS standards would have been globally recognised 40yr's ago but not any more, with time that may come back, only time will tell.

[B0ycey]

Yes but if they want to sell a product into the EU they have to have it EU stamped. That's following EU rules for manufacture. It becomes far more stringent for foods and live stock. I did say countries selling into the EU.

It's not just customs standards.

Nothing unusual in this, if the EU wants to sell into the UK it will have to do abide by UK rules

Thats not what you had written. You said all countries who trade with the EU had to abide by their laws. That isn't true. And the issue the EU have with the UK is that if you have open borders, you don't have customs checks at that border and as such if standards are not the same you can make a product "Without the EU stamp" and sell it in Ireland. But for the UK if they have to abide by the ECJ they then can't sell cheap shoddy shit to America making Brexit pointless. The solution would be a border in the Irish Sea. But the DUP said no.

[GerryT]

No.The products they sell into the EU have to abide by their customs standards. They still can make asbestos laden worktops for their own market if they aren't under the ruling of the ECJ. For example China, the US or anyone outside the customs union do not abide by EU rules when selling to each other because they trade with the EU as well.

Yes but if they want to sell a product into the EU they have to have it EU stamped. That's following EU rules for manufacture. It becomes far more stringent for foods and live stock. I did say countries selling into the EU.

It's not just customs standards.

Nothing unusual in this, if the EU wants to sell into the UK it will have to do abide by UK rules

[B0ycey]

Every country and that's Every country that sells product into the EU has to abide by EU rules.

No.The products they sell into the EU have to abide by their customs standards. They still can make asbestos laden worktops for their own market if they aren't under the ruling of the ECJ. For example China, the US or anyone outside the customs union do not abide by EU rules when selling to each other because they trade with the EU as well.

[GerryT]

Lol - yet again absolute tripe!! No other 'sovereign'  country has to abide by 'EU rules', or use THEIR court for trade disputes resolution......you really should check your facts in order to stop yourself from  looking so foolish Gerry.

Every country and that's Every country that sells product into the EU has to abide by EU rules.



AND



Dispute resolution between the UK and EU would be by a joint committee.

[Stevlin]

That should say

They're treating us like all other countries outside the EU because we left and view us like any other 3rd country.



Yet again UK politicians playing to the domestic audience. Do they not understand the EU can see what their doing, with each of these silly comments the wedge between the UK & EU negotiators grows.

Lol - yet again absolute tripe!! No other 'sovereign'  country has to abide by 'EU rules', or use THEIR court for trade disputes resolution......you really should check your facts in order to stop yourself from  looking so foolish Gerry.

[Borg Refinery]

:thup: Gerry. Couldn't put it better.



The double whammy will really hurt us...



Folks in NI & Scotland who didn't vote for this; they deserve better.



Tbh I guess Thomas was right, and I was wrong; folks in England voted Brexit indeed, and will reap what they sow....

[B0ycey]

It will be bad for most countries and recovery will be a long hard road. Now couple what the UK might do which is recovery and a hard brexit and it will be far worse, people will come to see, the history books won't be kind to Johnson and his crew of idiots.

Listen, you're speaking to a hardcore Europhile here. But handling no deal Brexit is a piss in the park compared to Covid19. Why? Because the industries that would have been hit hard from no deal like Aviation and the Auto sectors will be lucky to survive as an industry post covid, consumerism will be reduced to basic essentials and going abroad for business or tourism will be replaced with camping and zoom. So what I am trying to say is that people aren't going to tell the difference because they will basically be living the no deal lifestyle as an aftermath and all those things we were worrying about like international trade, frictionless borders, maintaining the labour supply, lorries queuing at Dover or retaining key industry that requires a continental supply chain are things that aren't going to matter now.

[GerryT]

It doesn't matter any more. There was a time "No Deal" would have been bad for the economy and the many many jobs that would have been lost from it, but as we have something that is so much worse that hasn't exploded yet, even when January comes and we have no break through, nobody is going to tell the difference of we delay or just go rogue.

It will be bad for most countries and recovery will be a long hard road. Now couple what the UK might do which is recovery and a hard brexit and it will be far worse, people will come to see, the history books won't be kind to Johnson and his crew of idiots.

[GerryT]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/15/negotiators-gloomy-as-eu-uk-brexit-talks-end-in-stalemate">https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... -stalemate">https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/15/negotiators-gloomy-as-eu-uk-brexit-talks-end-in-stalemate



The irony is strong with this one(!).



The extra-brilliant irony is that we could've done a Hungary and flouted any number of EU rules & regs far more effectively by simply remaining in the EU, whilst acting like an annoying problem child. I mean they just got away with suspending democracy in Hungary, how much further away from EU convergence do you want to go?



They're treating us more harshly because they've cut us off from 'the family' and now view us as hostile outsiders.



**None of the above implies an endorsement of Orban, whom I greatly detest.

That should say

They're treating us like all other countries outside the EU because we left and view us like any other 3rd country.



Yet again UK politicians playing to the domestic audience. Do they not understand the EU can see what their doing, with each of these silly comments the wedge between the UK & EU negotiators grows.

[B0ycey]

It doesn't matter any more. There was a time "No Deal" would have been bad for the economy and the many many jobs that would have been lost from it, but as we have something that is so much worse that hasn't exploded yet, even when January comes and we have no break through, nobody is going to tell the difference of we delay or just go rogue.

[Borg Refinery]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/15/negotiators-gloomy-as-eu-uk-brexit-talks-end-in-stalemate">https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... -stalemate">https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/15/negotiators-gloomy-as-eu-uk-brexit-talks-end-in-stalemate



The irony is strong with this one(!).



The extra-brilliant irony is that we could've done a Hungary and flouted any number of EU rules & regs far more effectively by simply remaining in the EU, whilst acting like an annoying problem child. I mean they just got away with suspending democracy in Hungary, how much further away from EU convergence do you want to go?



They're treating us more harshly because they've cut us off from 'the family' and now view us as hostile outsiders.



**None of the above implies an endorsement of Orban, whom I greatly detest.