Cummings Breaks the Rules.

[cromwell]

Mod Notice

Fascinating as the last two exchanges are they begin to degenerate in to a slanging match,under normal circumstances they could well just be deleted,they haven't but have gone to the off topic tower thread where you may continue between yourselves.



Beware though even there should the exchanges degenerate further you might well find them gone.



The mods as a team don't wish to stifle debate but please don't go down the road of just exchanging insults.



Thanks

[Borg Refinery]

ok mate. Your assertion is the tories are to blame for brexit. I disagreed.



I also have offered plenty evidence to explain my thinking , which you dismiss.



Meanwhile the fact remains in the real world , brexiters won a referdnum and five elections , and the tories have been in power for a decade now , so your assertion  , however weak it may be , doesnt seem to be doing either brexit or the tories any harm.



...but there you go.



The pro european conseravtive party were in government  , and they called the ref.....why?



In fear of the eurosceptic UKIP taking votes off them.



On the surface as i keep explaining you try and simplistically blame the tories ( for everything) but ignore all the non tory underlying problems , much of it caused by the so called anglo left  , over the years , which led to the brexit vote and result.



You remind me of an old poster i used toengage with on another forum , who similarly tried to portray voters as thick idiots who didnt know what they were voting for and were led up the garden path by the mind controlling tories.



Did it not occur to you that folk in england just wanted to leave the eu , and couldnt give a sh*t about what any political party said?



maybe not....



As have i which you also dismiss.



You can claim your "evidence " is all revealing all day long , but the fact of the matter is four years on and counting you on the english left not only continue to misrepresent brexit , but dont have a clue why it happened at all. Thats what i find astounding.



Right .



all that is bad with the world is "tory" ( in some cases true but not others) while all that is good is non tory?



Sounds very simplistic and black and white if you dont mind me saying?



Sounds alot like when the brit left called us the tartan tories ,in the hope people were daft enough to listen to them , and got humped repeatedly in the process.



Winning formula mate , i can see it really catching on so i can. ::



Irrelevant to my argument. We arent arguing my political views......i am pro european , support freedom of movement and have repeatedly said scotland needs immigration , and i want it to be from europe.



We are discussing why england went euroscpetic , and i am telling you the price that tony blairs disasterous decisions when in power played in the anger of the english public against F.O. M and the perception of mass uncontrolled immigration.



If you cant understand your own people and the reasons why they vote the way they do , while i on the other hand listen to what they say( even though i dont agree with them) what chance have you in getting back into power in england?



It doesnt matter if they were wrong about what immigration brought to england in terms of contributions to the treasurey . The english public didnt like it , blair didnt listen , and helped build up the feckin anger in england that led over many years to what happened in 2016.



Thats the point.



Irrelevant to my point and argument , and completely relevant to why labour have been out of power for ten years and counting.



No one in england gave a feck wether native english were net recpients or not , they didnt like what was happening and you wouldnt listen to them , and are now paying a very high price.



Tony blair was a cant  , and the price for his three empty election victories and policies are costing and will cost you dearly .Brexit is merely one symptom of that cost.



errr ......thats why im a scottish indy supporter. I dont care who is in power in your country , i dont want any of them having a say over mine



Im not. This isnt about me.



You on the other hand appear to be insinuating the "stupid voters of england" were too thick to understand brexit and what they voted for and are being led up the garden path by the evil thought controlling tories but refuse to accept the large part the english left played in brexit( or red tories like blair).



In short , ten years in and you know nothing and have learned nothing except to carry on navel gazing and finger pointing .



what like tory blair the cant and his mass uncontrolled immigration? :roll:



just not in scotland eh? ::



Did i ? Where?

Yep, exactly - like red Tory Blair the chunt who I don't support, never did, never will.



That's it, you got it.



I don't care whether people in England ignored migration statistics, I'm not going to pander to fake statistics for people's votes. No - not ever.



Maybe that's the difference between me and you, you would fake pretend-listening to people who think Poles are the cause of the world's problems, whereas I would tell them upfrontly that they are wrong, but that I understand that Blair has messed everything up in other ways and really bungled the immigration system, and that the EU's equal pay for foreign & native workers should have come in 10 years earlier



ie, I'm sincere and will accept losing elections for an indefinite period, but with honesty, whereas you are willing to lie your arse off to gain votes.



Luckily, the SNP doesn't share your convictions (or lack thereof).

[Thomas]

I stand by my assertion and have offered plenty of evidence to support it.



We will not agree, so best leave it there.

ok mate. Your assertion is the tories are to blame for brexit. I disagreed.



I also have offered plenty evidence to explain my thinking , which you dismiss.



Meanwhile the fact remains in the real world , brexiters won a referdnum and five elections , and the tories have been in power for a decade now , so your assertion  , however weak it may be , doesnt seem to be doing either brexit or the tories any harm.



...but there you go.

Who called the ref? Who was in govt?

The pro european conseravtive party were in government  , and they called the ref.....why?



In fear of the eurosceptic UKIP taking votes off them.



On the surface as i keep explaining you try and simplistically blame the tories ( for everything) but ignore all the non tory underlying problems , much of it caused by the so called anglo left  , over the years , which led to the brexit vote and result.

Who largely ran the leave & t'remain campaign?

You remind me of an old poster i used toengage with on another forum , who similarly tried to portray voters as thick idiots who didnt know what they were voting for and were led up the garden path by the mind controlling tories.



Did it not occur to you that folk in england just wanted to leave the eu , and couldnt give a shit about what any political party said?



maybe not.....

Again evidence has been provided, we won't agree so let's stop there.

As have i which you also dismiss.



You can claim your "evidence " is all revealing all day long , but the fact of the matter is four years on and counting you on the english left not only continue to misrepresent brexit , but dont have a clue why it happened at all. Thats what i find astounding.

Half of lab are just Tories in disguise, exactly my point. No I don't think it's not worth arguing - Tories and crypto Tories ran both remain & the leave campaign exactly as I have proven.

Right .



all that is bad with the world is "tory" ( in some cases true but not others) while all that is good is non tory?



Sounds very simplistic and black and white if you dont mind me saying?



Sounds alot like when the brit left called us the tartan tories ,in the hope people were daft enough to listen to them , and got humped repeatedly in the process.



Winning formula mate , i can see it really catching on so i can. ::

Agreed, except about the migration.



You do realize EU15 migrants are the only significant net contributors?

Irrelevant to my argument. We arent arguing my political views......i am pro european , support freedom of movement and have repeatedly said scotland needs immigration , and i want it to be from europe.



We are discussing why england went euroscpetic , and i am telling you the price that tony blairs disasterous decisions when in power played in the anger of the english public against F.O. M and the perception of mass uncontrolled immigration.



If you cant understand your own people and the reasons why they vote the way they do , while i on the other hand listen to what they say( even though i dont agree with them) what chance have you in getting back into power in england?

Their fears weren't justified and I don't care if I sound arrogant and undemocratic by saying that, sometimes the majority are wrong about certain things yes or no?

It doesnt matter if they were wrong about what immigration brought to england in terms of contributions to the treasurey . The english public didnt like it , blair didnt listen , and helped build up the feckin anger in england that led over many years to what happened in 2016.



Thats the point.

Native Brits are net recipients yes or no?

Irrelevant to my point and argument , and completely relevant to why labour have been out of power for ten years and counting.



No one in england gave a feck wether native english were net recpients or not , they didnt like what was happening and you wouldnt listen to them , and are now paying a very high price.



Tony blair was a cant  , and the price for his three empty election victories and policies are costing and will cost you dearly .Brexit is merely one symptom of that cost.

Okay, but the Tories are in power and destroying your country too whether you like it or not, not just mine.



Brexit will be undemocratically forced on your country too by them.

errr ......thats why im a scottish indy supporter. I dont care who is in power in your country , i dont want any of them having a say over mine.

But feel free to gloat about England's loss.

Im not. This isnt about me.



You on the other hand appear to be insinuating the "stupid voters of england" were too thick to understand brexit and what they voted for and are being led up the garden path by the evil thought controlling tories but refuse to accept the large part the english left played in brexit( or red tories like blair).



In short , ten years in and you know nothing and have learned nothing except to carry on navel gazing and finger pointing .

Nope, Tories & crypto Tories are definitely responsible for this mess.

what like tory blair the cant and his mass uncontrolled immigration? :roll:

Johnson has always been well-liked.



He always will be, your point is misleading.

just not in scotland eh? ::

Did you or did you not accuse me, personally of trying to exploit Scot remainers for brit left ends? Yes or no? Cos it looked like you were accusing me of that. And that's BS.

Did i ? Where?

[Borg Refinery]

He was a well known prominent labour remain campaigner , just like hoey , stuart and a number of other labour politicians were for leave. Not to mention the "old guard " like comrade corbyn were well know leavers thoughout the majority of their lives.



The point was , labour and other parties were on both sides and in prominent positions just as the tories were. Both sides were beyond party politics as it were , so neither side can be said to belong to either labour or tory.

I stand by my assertion and have offered plenty of evidence to support it.



We will not agree, so best leave it there.

You have and i have told you many times already portraying your old enemies as all things to all men  , like for example the british do with the snp , rarely if ever washes with the public. Theres no doubt the tories own brexit from now on in , but they didnt own brexit initially is all im saying.

Who called the ref? Who was in govt? Who largely ran the leave & t'remain campaign?



Again evidence has been provided, we won't agree so let's stop there.

Not really mate , if you are going to argue stuart was and is a tory , then my point in counter is you have to concede practially the vast majority of non momentum types in labour are then tories , with many prominent labour politicians past and present of the blairite mold being in the same category as stuart , which then makes party lines and arguing brexit belongs to the tories as totally irrelevant .Bear in mind also many of the red tory blairite types past and present were staunch pro europeans , so blaming (red/blue) tories for vote leave becomes silly.

Half of lab are just Tories in disguise, exactly my point. No I don't think it's not worth arguing - Tories and crypto Tories ran both remain & the leave campaign exactly as I have proven.

The cross party remain vote in england f**ked up the referendum , salmond warned them to stop trying to scaremonger the english public , and of course we have to factor in the governments prior to the 2016 referendum who did nothing to massage english publics fears over the eu , especially the blair governments and their uncontrolled mass immigration from eastern europe.

Agreed, except about the migration.



You do realize EU15 migrants are the only significant net contributors? And the latter post schengen influxers are also net contributors although only just? Non EU migrants are the main net recipients, not Eastern bloody Europeans, the non EU migrants and native Brits are the 2 net recipient groups.



Their fears weren't justified and I don't care if I sound arrogant and undemocratic by saying that, sometimes the majority are wrong about certain things yes or no?



Native Brits are net recipients yes or no?

Those who provided the ammo to farage in england over brexit have a long and inglorious checkered history going way back.

Okay, but the Tories are in power and destroying your country too whether you like it or not, not just mine.



Brexit will be undemocratically forced on your country too by them.



But feel free to gloat about England's loss.

Sorry mate  but trying to simplistically blame it on the tories is laughable.

Nope, Tories & crypto Tories are definitely responsible for this mess.

ok fair enough , but the point is the english left is probably at its lowest ebb i have ever seen in my entire lifetime. Ignoring people thoughts and feelings as irrelevant scribbling is why you are in the mess you are in just now.



We know best , do as we say not as we do has predictable consequences as we have seen. I mean how bad must your political movement in your country be to let johnson and his party hump you in a general election?

Johnson has always been well-liked.



He always will be, your point is misleading.



Btw lab sabotaged itself;



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-election-whatsapp-antisemitism-tories-yougov-poll-a9462456.html%3Famp">https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp">https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-election-whatsapp-antisemitism-tories-yougov-poll-a9462456.html%3famp

you are talking in riddles mate and contradicting yourself.



Were did i agree this?



I said they may think they are trying to use the scot indy movement for their own purposes , but in reality this isnt the case.



Using the scottish vote as voting fodder only works when scotland votes for a pro british party like in the days of old and labour.



Those days are over now , and although you could marginally argue in the brexit ref the english remain tried to use the other three countires remain votes to win , at the end of the day england usually decides on its own what happens in the uk because its popualtion outnumbers us ten to one.



This is an old old argument .England gets the government it wants on a normal election day , and your problem isnt scotland , but convincing your fellow countyrmen of the value of remaining in the eu and  voting for the english left.



Which you and you alone spectacualrly failed to do , and since we have had nothing but empty navel gazing soul searching and every desperate attempt to cloud reality with delusion and think up more ways to overturn democracy when it suits.



You have a long long road back to power if ever , and it all starts with coming to terms with your faults , not the tories faults.

Of course I have failed to do it, it's not doable.



The only way would be to start my own party or support someone else's.



Those are not options currently, end of.



Did you or did you not accuse me, personally of trying to exploit Scot remainers for brit left ends? Yes or no? Cos it looked like you were accusing me of that. And that's BS.

[Streetwalker]

Now Boris Johnson has stood before the nation and defended Dominic Cummings for doing something that other people have been arrested and fined for.



Those Tory MPs who have demanded Cummings' resignation or sacking should stick to their guns and consider building a leadership challenge once the 12 month protection expires in a couple of months.

 Has anyone actually been arrested or fined for driving to a relatives house during lockdown ?

The media and the left  is deranged over Cummings ,they are even now still saying on news channels that he clearly broke the law . Well he obviously didn't as he is still laughing at the idiots parked up outside his house .  ::  .



Look Im no fan of the man ,there is something about him that doesn't quiet add up for me but as long as he is keeping the left in a Hysterical fit he will do for me .  



A leadership challenge wont happen till the I's have been dotted and the t's crossed on the Brexit /WTO arrangements at the earliest . Half a dozen backbench MP's wont be changing that any time soon  .

[Thomas]

Oh right, don't recall that. Just checked; can only find ref to 3 times he went on telly.

He was a well known prominent labour remain campaigner , just like hoey , stuart and a number of other labour politicians were for leave. Not to mention the "old guard " like comrade corbyn were well know leavers thoughout the majority of their lives.



The point was , labour and other parties were on both sides and in prominent positions just as the tories were. Both sides were beyond party politics as it were , so neither side can be said to belong to either labour or tory .

've told you that many, many times already.

You have and i have told you many times already portraying your old enemies as all things to all men  , like for example the british do with the snp , rarely if ever washes with the public. Theres no doubt the tories own brexit from now on in , but they didnt own brexit initially is all im saying.

So you concede my point about Gisela?

Not really mate , if you are going to argue stuart was and is a tory , then my point in counter is you have to concede practially the vast majority of non momentum types in labour are then tories , with many prominent labour politicians past and present of the blairite mold being in the same category as stuart , which then makes party lines and arguing brexit belongs to the tories as totally irrelevant .Bear in mind also many of the red tory blairite types past and present were staunch pro europeans , so blaming (red/blue) tories for vote leave becomes silly.



The cross party remain vote in england fucked up the referendum , salmond warned them to stop trying to scaremonger the english public , and of course we have to factor in the governments prior to the 2016 referendum who did nothing to massage english publics fears over the eu , especially the blair governments and their uncontrolled mass immigration from eastern europe.



Those who provided the ammo to farage in england over brexit have a long and inglorious checkered history going way back.



Sorry mate  but trying to simplistically blame it on the tories is laughable.

Other folks can get as hysterical and boistrous as they like, while only remaining a slight irrelevance, as I don't read their scribbling tbh, it's skipped like a bad track on a cd

ok fair enough , but the point is the english left is probably at its lowest ebb i have ever seen in my entire lifetime. Ignoring people thoughts and feelings as irrelevant scribbling is why you are in the mess you are in just now.



We know best , do as we say not as we do has predictable consequences as we have seen. I mean how bad must your political movement in your country be to let johnson and his party hump you in a general election?

I agree a lot of anglo lefties and remainers tried to use the scot indy-ers etc, I know you're accusing me of this myself across threads for some reason, that's ok I don't care in the slightest - but it also happens not to be true.

you are talking in riddles mate and contradicting yourself.



Were did i agree this?



I said they may think they are trying to use the scot indy movement for their own purposes , but in reality this isnt the case.



Using the scottish vote as voting fodder only works when scotland votes for a pro british party like in the days of old and labour.



Those days are over now , and although you could marginally argue in the brexit ref the english remain tried to use the other three countires remain votes to win , at the end of the day england usually decides on its own what happens in the uk because its popualtion outnumbers us ten to one.



This is an old old argument .England gets the government it wants on a normal election day , and your problem isnt scotland , but convincing your fellow countyrmen of the value of remaining in the eu and  voting for the english left.



Which you and you alone spectacualrly failed to do , and since then  we have had nothing but empty navel gazing soul searching and every desperate attempt to cloud reality with delusion and think up more ways to overturn democracy when it suits.



You have a long long road back to power if ever , and it all starts with coming to terms with your faults , not the tories faults.

[Borg Refinery]

Where was he ? He was never aff the telly defending remain every second he could.

Oh right, don't recall that. Just checked; can only find ref to 3 times he went on telly.

..and hand on heart cant you tell me remain wasnt full of tories either

I've told you that many, many times already.  

Well if we are going to cast up pro tory quotes from labour politicians then you are in big trouble my friend. Rachael reeve , when last in the shadow government under miiliband was  telling us how labour would be tougher on benefits than the tories under austerity had been , and dear old blairite babe yvette cooper endorsed labour councils in scotland going into coaltion with the tories to keep the snp out?



Seems to be a blurring of lines between many labour politicians like those mentioned and the tories .Political principles seem to fall by the wayside when things like brexit or scottish independence are being voted on. :roll:  :: The establishment in both red and blue tory sides close ranks.



...yet the establishment side lost the referendum in 2016 big time.

Correct - loads of crypto Tories in lab too.



So you concede my point about Gisela?



What about that hideous norn irish unionist lady in lab was was a prominent Brexiteer? She's as red Tory as they come.



No historical revisionism going on here. 😎



Other folks can get as hysterical and boistrous as they like, while only remaining a slight irrelevance, as I don't read their scribbling tbh, it's skipped like a bad track on a cd.



I agree a lot of anglo lefties and remainers tried to use the scot indy-ers etc, I know you're accusing me of this myself across threads for some reason, that's ok I don't care in the slightest - but it also happens not to be true.

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

Now Boris Johnson has stood before the nation and defended Dominic Cummings for doing something that other people have been arrested and fined for.



Those Tory MPs who have demanded Cummings' resignation or sacking should stick to their guns and consider building a leadership challenge once the 12 month protection expires in a couple of months.

[Thomas]

Where was he? It was a genuine question as I don't remember what he did in 2016, obv not memorable.

Where was he ? He was never aff the telly defending remain every second he could.

Can you hand on heart tell me it wasn't principally Tory steered?

..and hand on heart cant you tell me remain wasnt full of tories either , indeed the majority of the brit establishment , most of whom arent in any way working class brothers or sisters in any way shape or form , were remain.

In 2019 Stuart announced she would vote for the Conservative Party in the 2019 general election.[26] She remained a member of the Labour Party after the election.[27]

Well if we are going to cast up pro tory quotes from labour politicians then you are in big trouble my friend. Rachael reeve , when last in the shadow government under miiliband was  telling us how labour would be tougher on benefits than the tories under austerity had been , and dear old blairite babe yvette cooper endorsed labour councils in scotland going into coaltion with the tories to keep the snp out?



Seems to be a blurring of lines between many labour politicians like those mentioned and the tories .Political principles seem to fall by the wayside when things like brexit or scottish independence are being voted on. :roll:  :: The establishment in both red and blue tory sides close ranks.



...yet the establishment side lost the referendum in 2016 big time.



Trying to rewrite history of the run up to the brexit ref and fallout after as some sort of tory plot is laughable mate.



Still , no matter to me. More ammo to us i suppose over scottish indy.

[papasmurf]

Shame. He'll be in Durham.  ::

Judging by the comments from the locals up there today, there will be an angry mob up there as well.

[B0ycey]

Allegedly an angry mob has assembled outside Cummings London residence.

Shame. He'll be in Durham.  ::

[papasmurf]

Indeed.  :thup:



But not as much as the media. God I have someone has video evidence of Cummings out and about during lockdown. This sh*t is complete BS and BJ is a joke with no backbone. That or Cummings knows where the skeletons are.

Allegedly an angry mob has assembled outside Cummings London residence.

[B0ycey]

How short are your answers BoJo? Another clusterfuck and BS at today's Covid meeting.

[Borg Refinery]

come oan mate a total sideswerve.

Where was he? It was a genuine question as I don't remember what he did in 2016, obv not memorable.

The chair of vote leave , gisela stuart was a tory?

Vote Leave was founded in October 2015 by political strategists Matthew Elliott and Dominic Cummings...



Gisela Stuart (chair)

Matthew Elliott (CEO)

Dominic Cummings (campaign director)

Victoria Woodcock (operations director and company secretary)

Thomas Borwick (CTO)

Henry de Zoete (digital director)

Michael Gove

Boris Johnson



This coincided with the announcement of Labour MP Gisela Stuart as the new chairman of Vote Leave (replacing Lord Lawson) along with Gisela Stuart and Michael Gove as Co-Conveners of the Committee.[33] The Vote Leave Campaign Committee is



Michael Gove (Co-Convener), Conservative MP for Surrey Heath, Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice

Gisela Stuart (Co-Convener), Labour MP for Birmingham Edgbaston

Matthew Elliott (chief executive)

Dominic Cummings (Campaign Director), former government adviser[34]

Boris Johnson, Conservative MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, former Mayor of London

Steve Baker, Conservative MP for High Wycombe

Douglas Carswell, then a UKIP MP for Clacton

Ian Davidson, former Labour MP for Glasgow South West

Nigel Dodds, Democratic Unionist Party MP for Belfast North, Deputy Leader of the DUP

Iain Duncan Smith, Conservative MP for Chingford and Woodford Green

Frank Field, Labour MP for Birkenhead, former Minister of Welfare Reform

Lord Forsyth, former Conservative MP for Stirling and Secretary of State for Scotland

Liam Fox, Conservative MP for North Somerset, former Secretary of State for Defence

Chris Grayling, Conservative MP for Epsom and Ewell, Leader of the House of Commons

Daniel Hannan, Conservative MEP for South East England

Paul Keetch, former Liberal Democrat MP for Hereford

Lord Lawson, former Conservative MP for Blaby and Chancellor of the Exchequer

Andrea Leadsom, Conservative MP for South Northamptonshire, Minister of State at the Department of Energy and Climate Change

John Longworth, former director-general of the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC). Longworth was suspended from his role at the BCC following his public comments in support of Brexit on 3 March.[35][36]

Lord Owen, former Labour and SDP MP for Plymouth Devonport and Foreign Secretary

Priti Patel, Conservative MP for Witham, Minister of State for Employment

Dominic Raab, Conservative MP for Esher and Walton, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Justice

Graham Stringer, Labour MP for Blackley and Broughton

Theresa Villiers, Conservative MP for Chipping Barnet, Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

John Whittingdale, Conservative MP for Maldon, Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport



A number of Vote Leave principals, including Douglas Carswell, Michael Gove, Bernard Jenkin and Anne-Marie Trevelyan, were also members of the influential IPSA resourced European Research Group.



- wiki c&p'ing



Can you hand on heart tell me it wasn't principally Tory steered?



Gisela?



::



In October 2004, she became the only Labour MP who openly supported the re-election of George W. Bush at that year's U.S. presidential election, arguing "you know where you stand with George and, in today's world, that's much better than rudderless leaders who drift with the prevailing wind". She wrote that a victory for Democratic Party challenger, John Kerry, would prompt "victory celebrations among those who want to destroy liberal democracies. More terrorists and suicide bombers would step forward to become martyrs in their quest to destroy the West".[16



Stuart is a signatory of the Henry Jackson Society principles, which promote the spread of liberal democracy across the world and the maintenance of a strong military with global expeditionary reach.[20] She is the editor of the weekly political magazine The House.[21]



In 2019 Stuart announced she would vote for the Conservative Party in the 2019 general election.[26] She remained a member of the Labour Party after the election.[27]



Since 2015, she has been a Steering Committee member of the Constitution Reform Group (CRG), a cross-party pressure group of current and former politicians, academics, constitutional law experts, former officials in Parliament and government and ordinary citizens.[23] The CRG seeks a new constitutional settlement in the UK by way of a new Act of Union.[24]



Since September 2016, Stuart has served as Chair of Vote Leave's successor organisation, Change Britain.



After she left Parliament, Stuart was appointed by the Conservative government as Chair of Wilton Park, an executive agency of the UK Foreign Office dedicated to conflict resolution in international relations, in October 2018.[2]



Stuart is a member of the Steering Committee of the Constitution Reform Group (CRG)[3], a cross-party organisation chaired by Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 7th Marquess of Salisbury, which seeks a new constitutional settlement in the UK by way of a new Act of Union[4]. The Constitution Reform Group's new Act of Union Bill[4]



- wiki



"Other non tories played no part in it?"



(shrugs) Sure, they played a part in it.



"Even further away from danger! ::"



  ::

[Thomas]

Quite, he has not sacked Cummings, stating live on TV just now Cummings has done nothing wrong. There will be a serious backlash from within the Tory party.

 ::



You said there was going to be a serious backlash against the tories for the last three general elections  , not to mention how the uk public would crucify them over benefit cuts.etc etc.



they are still there pappy.



You have to take away wishfull thinking from reality.