Cummings Breaks the Rules.

[Thomas]

The guy who when made shadow chancellor admitted he'd never read an economic book in his life?



Where was he? I didn't even notice himtbh.

come oan mate a total sideswerve.

No it was not my original statement, the figureheads of both campaigns were principally Tories.



Yes or no?

The chair of vote leave , gisela stuart was a tory?

Cummings, Gove, Bojo etc played no part in it?

Other non tories played no part in it?

And I live in Hastings, btw.

Even further away from danger! ::

[Thomas]

Do you want me to get into the technical or something?

Yes please boycey....do!

That is in 1975 it only got implemented by parliamentary approval

The brexit referendum act was implemented by parliamentary approval in 2015. Whats your point?

That is, it required parliamentary democracy and not the referendum.

The opposite was the case in 2016. The government even sent out this pre referendum leaflet beforehand promising to enact the referendum result.



https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/Leaflet.PNG">

Also, what was actually voted for in 2016 apart from leaving the EU?

certainly not lame excuses about remaining or BRINO or petty points of law and the english concept of parliamentary sovereignty overriding all else to the point of anti democracy.

May could have actually given into Labour's demands and had their Brexit whenever she felt like and that would have fulfilled the referendum result

Horsehit. From memory labour wanted to remain in a customes union , and even tony blair and others who were and are ardently pro european said leaving the customs union to make our own trade deals was indeed the only point they saw in brexit. More to the point the public never bought it either  , which is why labour got humped severely in december with their silly demands and out of touch BRINO.



Shall we overturn the december general election as well beacuse you lost boycey? ::

This has all gone to court so basically I am just explaining the law anyways.

Which law? English law or scottish law? And what does it say about enacting the brexit referendum result?

. And to be honest I am not going round and round over something that has already happened.

...but you are. You lost a referendum and five elections over brexit , and keep trying to bend democracy to suit your anti democratic position .I love listening to all these arguments people like you try and apply when you lose .Its hilarious.

 We are out. It is over. We move on to the next battle. Good day.

No we arent .Are you now trying to define what "out " looks like to suit your own argument?



The uk is still an eu member  , accepting all the rules regulations and payments .It has merely withdrawn MEPs and lowered some daft flag.



If thats brexit , you should have said to us all and we could have saved years of hassle and done all this without you losing a referendum and five elections.

[B0ycey]

Quite, he has not sacked Cummings, stating live on TV just now Cummings has done nothing wrong. There will be a serious backlash from within the Tory party.

Indeed.  :thup:



But not as much as the media. God I have someone has video evidence of Cummings out and about during lockdown. This shit is complete BS and BJ is a joke with no backbone. That or Cummings knows where the skeletons are.

[papasmurf]

f**k OFF BORIS!!!



Stop chatting shite!

Quite, he has not sacked Cummings, stating live on TV just now Cummings has done nothing wrong. There will be a serious backlash from within the Tory party.

[B0ycey]

F@@@ OFF BORIS!!!



Stop chatting shite!

[Borg Refinery]

No i said that the euroscpetic support long predates the 2016 referendum and the leave campaign , where it has hovered around the tipping point ( over as in the years i mentioned , under slightly as your graph shows in others) over decades , especially in england.

Fair enough.



I concede your point.

No mention of labours alan johnson?

 ::



The guy who when made shadow chancellor admitted he'd never read an economic book in his life?



Where was he? I didn't even notice himtbh.

No your original argument was the tories ran brexit and brexit is all their fault  , now they ran both campaigns.?



You are trying and failing to manouvere the tories into being the blame for all the worlds ills. Everyone accepts the tories werent primarily to blame for brexit , and painting a new picture does the english left no favours.

No it was not my original statement, the figureheads of both campaigns were principally Tories.



Yes or no?

The pro european conservative party. Headed by pro european prime minister and chancellor. :roll:  :: of whom eurosceptic nigel farage was their enemy  , and the referendum was held to stop the gradual increase in ukip votes , who were taking anti european votes from both labour and tory.

Cummings, Gove, Bojo etc played no part in it?

i know mate , but as a serious political argument to get the tories out of power , it goes no where . :brd:

That's their fault, they stole my feckin argument, Bojo personally did it.

So was i mate...im still more middle class than you! Feckin saxon peasant.

 



My people were catuvellauni I think, that, Scottish (Mum's side), portuguese...

feckin trident. The majority of your countrymen havent been within hundreds of miles of trident , whereas i grew up 30 miles from the sub base.



Any accident would wipe us off the face of the earth rather than you in the safety of londonshire. :roll:

 



I specifically said that to wind you up just a lil bit, did it work?  



And I live in Hastings, btw.

[Thomas]

The majority of the time?

No i said that the euroscpetic support long predates the 2016 referendum and the leave campaign , where it has hovered around the tipping point ( over as in the years i mentioned , under slightly as your graph shows in others) over decades , especially in england.

Which was run by Cameron and Osbourne.

No mention of labours alan johnson?

I didn't say it was soley run by them.



I said both campaigns were principally run by them.

No your original argument was the tories ran brexit and brexit is all their fault  , now they ran both campaigns.?



You are trying and failing to manouvere the tories into being the blame for all the worlds ills. Everyone accepts the tories werent primarily to blame for brexit , and painting a new picture does the english left no favours.

Not soley, but principally.



Remind me who was in govt?

The pro european conservative party. Headed by pro european prime minister and chancellor. :roll:  :: of whom eurosceptic nigel farage was their enemy  , and the referendum was held to stop the gradual increase in ukip votes , who were taking anti european votes from both labour and tory.

How do you know? It might be. There were weird tropical storms on the day Boris entered no 10 remember?



I blame them for burning my toast too

i know mate , but as a serious political argument to get the tories out of power , it goes no where . :brd:

Does being raised in social housing, sometimes going without food etc count as middle class?

So was i mate...im still more middle class than you! Feckin saxon peasant.

That we 'accidentally' nuke ourselves with trident?

feckin trident. The majority of your countrymen havent been within hundreds of miles of trident , whereas i grew up 30 miles from the sub base.



Any accident would wipe us off the face of the earth rather than you in the safety of londonshire. :roll:

[B0ycey]

Horshit. Most uk referendums in history have been advisory and been implemented.Why was it right to take the uk into the eec in 1975 on an advisory referndum , but not out in 2016 on an advisory referendum? ::

Do you want me to get into the technical or something? That is in 1975 it only got implemented by parliamentary approval. That is, it required parliamentary democracy and not the referendum. Also, what was actually voted for in 2016 apart from leaving the EU? No deal, hard Brexit, soft Brexit? May could have actually given into Labour's demands and had their Brexit whenever she felt like and that would have fulfilled the referendum result. But whatever. This has all gone to court so basically I am just explaining the law anyways. And to be honest I am not going round and round over something that has already happened. We are out. It is over. We move on to the next battle. Good day.

[Thomas]

::



Actually it is "Democracy only applies when it is legal".

Horshit. Most uk referendums in history have been advisory and been implemented.Why was it right to take the uk into the eec in 1975 on an advisory referndum , but not out in 2016 on an advisory referendum? ::



On the international scale , the uk famously supported the illegal declaration of independence of kosovo.





As you saw in decemeber this argument only carried some water until the people replied if you dont enact what you delegated to us when we gave you our anwswer in 2016 , then we will vote you out .



This 2016 wasnt legal argument has to be one of the biggest scraping of the barrel i have ever read on brexit. ::

[Borg Refinery]

I think he is , and by my observations on two forums i have known him , so do the majority who read his posts. Eventually people switch off when he starts telling us the tories are bad for the four hundredth time of talking about shooting esther mcvey.

How dare you compare me to papa!



..I'm far worse. I've been banned from several forums for my extreme abuse. Including once for abusing papa I believe..

What ? Its impossible for 55 million english people to get together and sort out their politics the way many other countires have?



Im afraid i have far more faith in the english people than you do mate.

Yep it's impossible, no I don't have Faith that they will, you clearly have far more than me.  :-P

Many differing people.



https://i.ibb.co/9VcNjBv/poll.jpg">



77 - 84 , 2001 , 2012?

The majority of the time?

poorly worded .Coorbyn as we discussed was part of the eurosceptic english left.



What i meant was the english remain side had the backing of the brit state , and still lost.

Which was run by Cameron and Osbourne.

ok so tories on both sides ( and other parties) which errr.......is what im saying.Brexit was a pan euroscpetic movement of many folk in many parties ( hell even some snp voted leave) so how can it be the sole product of the tories?



You arent making sense old son.

I didn't say it was soley run by them.



I said both campaigns were principally run by them.

Wait what? The tories are now respnsible for both leave and remain , and all the duplicity on both sides while everyone else gets admonished?



 ::

Not soley, but principally.



Remind me who was in govt?


 

:shock:



As auld borkie says , itll be the tories fault if it rains the morra.

How do you know? It might be. There were weird tropical storms on the day Boris entered no 10 remember?



I blame them for burning my toast too! 😡

I never knew i was middle class until i drove down to london one time :roll:  ::

Does being raised in social housing, sometimes going without food etc count as middle class?



 :shock:

Theres alwasys a solution to everything , i just prefer you find it after we leave.

That we 'accidentally' nuke ourselves with trident?

[B0ycey]

You cant expalin mate as you dont have a coherent argument excpet democracy only applies when you win.

 ::



Actually it is "Democracy only applies when it is legal".



Although we have now left the EU, regardless of the parliamentary tennis that occured beforehand and now it is a question of when enough Europhiles come of age and we return to the club. I can wait. The Brexit shitfest will just bring down the Tories when the public realise that their campaign was all lies and a liberal Europhile party gains prominence.

[Thomas]

Wrong.



All I can say is Gina Miller. When you have two conflicting democracies,  the legal one over rides the advisory one. I can't explain it better than that.

 ::



Brilliant boycey,. you should use that as your motto at the next election and see how far it gets you.

I can't explain it better than that.

You cant expalin mate as you dont have a coherent argument excpet democracy only applies when you win.

[Thomas]

He's not wrong either is he? I don't go around talking of kneecapping them tho.

I think he is , and by my observations on two forums i have known him , so do the majority who read his posts. Eventually people switch off when he starts telling us the tories are bad for the four hundredth time of talking about shooting esther mcvey.

Agreed, but you're in effect telling me to start my own party.



That isn't possible.

What ? Its impossible for 55 million english people to get together and sort out their politics the way many other countires have?



Im afraid i have far more faith in the english people than you do mate.

Who ran the campaigns?

Many differing people.



https://i.ibb.co/9VcNjBv/poll.jpg">



77 - 84 , 2001 , 2012?

Um. You concede that many, maybe most, of the left supported Brexit?

poorly worded .Coorbyn as we discussed was part of the eurosceptic english left.



What i meant was the english remain side had the backing of the brit state , and still lost.

Not just Tory, but principally Tory, same with Remain.

ok so tories on both sides ( and other parties) which errr.......is what im saying.Brexit was a pan euroscpetic movement of many folk in many parties ( hell even some snp voted leave) so how can it be the sole product of the tories?



You arent making sense old son.

Exactly. That's my point - the whole shitshow is their feckin fault Thanks for pointing that out

Wait what? The tories are now respnsible for both leave and remain , and all the duplicity on both sides while everyone else gets admonished?



 ::



As auld borkie says , itll be the tories fault if it rains the morra.

So do I, and me and him agree on that. Check the 'some sums' thread.



I don't qualify as middle class sadly.

I never knew i was middle class until i drove down to london one time :roll:  ::

Cos you know there is no solution?

Theres alwasys a solution to everything , i just prefer you find it after we leave.

[B0ycey]

i didnt .



Did you miss my answer?



Parliamentary democracy was overridden in 2016 when that same parliament delegated their power to the people and asked them to make a decision on uk membership of the eu.



im not sure what is difficult with my reply?



You appear to be re arguing parliamentary democracy overrides the result of a referendum if said parliament doesnt like the result?

Wrong.



All I can say is Gina Miller. When you have two conflicting democracies,  the legal one over rides the advisory one. I can't explain it better than that.

[Thomas]

Well then you missed the point of advisory over parliamentary democracy.

i didnt .



Did you miss my answer?



Parliamentary democracy was overridden in 2016 when that same parliament delegated their power to the people and asked them to make a decision on uk membership of the eu.



im not sure what is difficult with my reply?



You appear to be re arguing parliamentary democracy overrides the result of a referendum if said parliament doesnt like the result?

If you are splitting hairs that is what you get and so the example can be put that way and as such both votes are void.

No.



You demcrats were reasonably happy with democracy up to 2016 , and from there on in thats where you start questioning its validity.



Thats called our grapes old chum.

The rest of your post actually doesn't address anything I have said. It is just nonsense and is nothing more than a strawman.

its not nonsense and straw man simply because you say so. I am addressing clearly what you are saying , and calling out your posts as sour grapes and horshit.

. So lets just tell you what I said, and you can sealion someone else if you want to make bollocks up to somehow justify that we should leave the EU.

Im not a brexiter , im a remainer , and im arguing democracy being enacted is of far more importance than remaining under some piss poor argument that democracy doesnt apply to you when you lose.

That is Remain had the most votes and Boris got into power because of FPTP.

All uk governements get into power over FPTP , and you had the least votes in 2016 referendum when it counted. Stop talking cac mate.

The UK is largely remain

It wasnt in 2016 when it mattered , and remain couldnt win elections over the past five years.Boo hoo lets change the rules when we lose.

And remain parties split their own vote

They did , but we discussed this fallacy that there was never a cats chance in hell of remain uniting behind one party .If your aunt had baws she would be your uncle.

Oh and that the left-right divide is a genetation divide. That is it.

ah ok mate. maybe next time eh? ::