What's really bad about the Durham trips story....

[Javert]

I guess thinking about it again, I suppose there is another argument about Kinnock and even maybe Cummings which is what he should resign from?



Ferguson had to step down from one committee - he has not resigned from his actual day job.



With the Scottish CMO - has she actually resigned completely from her day job i.e lose her salary, or just from a particular role?



If a Minister was found guilty of this, even if they resigned, I suspect they would resign from their position as a minister and not as an MP.



So, you could argue that the only thing Kinnock can resign from is as an MP, and that would be rather a bigger deal than just resigning from a committee as well.  This would also trigger a by election which would be hard to run during a lock down.



Same thing applies to Cummings - I guess if he resigns he is resigning from his job and will lose his income.



That said, I don't think Cummings will have any financial issues or any trouble finding income - there's always jobs for hatchet people.



I don't know anything about Kinnock or his personal wealth.



This doesn't really change my view that Cummings should go.  I'm just pointing out that "resigning" doesn't mean the same thing all the time, and that losing your job and ending up with no income is entirely different to just being off one committee.

[papasmurf]

I am also aware of autistic children.

That is false news, it has been removed from the originators twitter account.

[Borg Refinery]

Fair enough.

[Javert]

Did you do so about this?



https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/29/stephen-kinnock-targeted-by-police-for-visiting-father-neil">https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... ather-neil">https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/29/stephen-kinnock-targeted-by-police-for-visiting-father-neil



Tbh if Cummings has to go, then so does this guy, out of Labour.



If Starmer doesn't do that (and I've seen no one complain about this) then he is as bad as Boris Johnson.

Yes - I agree.



To be clear, I don't think Kinnock nor Cummings (if his story is true) did anything scientifically wrong - he was not risking spreading the virus.



That said - with Cummings I find his story that he drove all thew way to Durham when they were infectious and with a 4 year old in the car quite a feat never needed the toilet in all that time?  - I hope they didn't catch his reg plate in a service station or he is toast.  Also it's a 5 hour drive - his car must've been luckily already full of petrol at that time.



But - at that time, the government and all those scientists were very clearly telling us that we weren't allowed to do exactly this type of thing - not permitted.  Period.  They then set the precedent that people in high profile positions who didn't follow this should resign.



So - my position is that what really should have happened from the beginning is that all those people should have been told off by the police.  Cummings should have been fined because he repeatedly broke the rules over a period of 2-3 weeks - on the 3rd occasion he broke the rules (the Castle Trip) that should have resulted in a fine from the police.



However, none of them should've had to resign from their jobs.



BUT - once the precedent was set that you should resign for this type of thing, they should all go, including Kinnock and Cummings.



I guess the pushback on that will be that Kinnock is just a minor MP and he's not a key part of presenting the response, but he is still an MP who has responsibility in his local community for setting the example.



By the way - the Manchester Police were interviewed this morning and the guy said that if Cummings had by chance been stopped on the way to Durham at that time, and given the same reasons he gave yesterday, he would have been turned back.  Period.



Edit - if you go back to the Ferguson story - I took a lot of flak as I was the only one defending him basically saying - he should be told off by the police but he shouldn't have to resign, or if not, every person in the country including me should resign from my job if I break the lock down guidance.

[Borg Refinery]

Equally, several more have done this -



https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-22/the-high-profile-figures-who-have-breached-lockdown-restrictions/">https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-22/the ... trictions/">https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-22/the-high-profile-figures-who-have-breached-lockdown-restrictions/



Jenrick (Tory MP) - Why hasn't he gone?



He broke lockdown worse than Cummings..



Dr Catherine Calderwood - resigned of her own initiative but was fully backed by Sturgeon; very hypocritical of Sturgeon to attack Boris for this; given her strong anti-lockdown message and "toe in the ass" speech. I don't want her to bring the SNP down with such short sightedness but that's really very disappointing.



Still, at least Calderwood had the good honour to resign - unlike Kinnock, Jenrick & Dom.  :roll:

[Borg Refinery]

To be honest, as I posted quite a few days ago, the initial actions that Cummings took (aside from the weird Castle visit), taken completely on their own, should not have been a resign from your job offence.  In my view, he should have been told off by the police and his boss if it was just that.



However, first the precedent has been set that if you are in a high profile position related to the CV19 response and you break the lock down rules you should resign.  I don't necessarily agree that should have been the case for all of them, but once the precedent is set there should not be an exception for Cummings.



Further - as others have pointed out it's not the initial offence itself, but the subsequent cover up, getting his wife to write cover stories in the Spectator, then insisting that it was obvious that he had done nothing wrong. And claiming everyone would have done the same.  



The implication here is that everyone with small children who was worried they might catch coronavirus and doesn't decamp to their mansion in the country obviously doesn't love their kids much.  I could have taken my step son 200 miles down South to a place that was nearer my extended family.  I didn't.  Does that mean I don't care about him?  It didn't even cross my mind to do that because it was totally clearly against the rules.  I don't know why I'm always surprised at how they get away with this re-writing of the rules retrospectively, wheel out a sob story and everyone is fine with it.



I do agree that he looks like he has some level of ASD traits but that is not a reason to give him special dispensation from the actual duties and responsibilities of the job he's chosen to accept.



Anyway - the interesting thing we've learned in the last few days is that these guys Johnson, Cummings and so on are terrible liars.  It seems that being able to repeat scripted lies over and over again does not mean you are able to be a good liar when under questioning.  My kids can lie better than them.

Did you do so about this?



https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/29/stephen-kinnock-targeted-by-police-for-visiting-father-neil">https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... ather-neil">https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/29/stephen-kinnock-targeted-by-police-for-visiting-father-neil



Tbh if Cummings has to go, then so does this guy, out of Labour.



If Starmer doesn't do that (and I've seen no one complain about this) then he is as bad as Boris Johnson.

[Javert]

To be honest, as I posted quite a few days ago, the initial actions that Cummings took (aside from the weird Castle visit), taken completely on their own, should not have been a resign from your job offence.  In my view, he should have been told off by the police and his boss if it was just that.



However, first the precedent has been set that if you are in a high profile position related to the CV19 response and you break the lock down rules you should resign.  I don't necessarily agree that should have been the case for all of them, but once the precedent is set there should not be an exception for Cummings.



Further - as others have pointed out it's not the initial offence itself, but the subsequent cover up, getting his wife to write cover stories in the Spectator, then insisting that it was obvious that he had done nothing wrong. And claiming everyone would have done the same.  



The implication here is that everyone with small children who was worried they might catch coronavirus and doesn't decamp to their mansion in the country obviously doesn't love their kids much.  I could have taken my step son 200 miles down South to a place that was nearer my extended family.  I didn't.  Does that mean I don't care about him?  It didn't even cross my mind to do that because it was totally clearly against the rules.  I don't know why I'm always surprised at how they get away with this re-writing of the rules retrospectively, wheel out a sob story and everyone is fine with it.



I do agree that he looks like he has some level of ASD traits but that is not a reason to give him special dispensation from the actual duties and responsibilities of the job he's chosen to accept.



Anyway - the interesting thing we've learned in the last few days is that these guys Johnson, Cummings and so on are terrible liars.  It seems that being able to repeat scripted lies over and over again does not mean you are able to be a good liar when under questioning.  My kids can lie better than them.

[Borg Refinery]

My dad died under lockdown in Barnard Castle. I find Dominic Cummings' visit repellent

Helen Goodman

Here in County Durham, people feel betrayed and insulted by the prime minister's defence of his adviser



• Helen Goodman was the Labour MP for Bishop Auckland from 2005 to 2019



Mon 25 May 2020 17.58 BSTLast modified on Mon 25 May 2020 18.33 BST

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Barnard Castle town sign



My dad who was 93 had been living in a care home for a few months in Barnard Castle, County Durham. On 23 March, without forewarning, a lockdown was imposed – visits from friends, family, the parish priest and even local GPs stopped. My dad found this disorientating and distressing. As he put it to one of the carers: "I don't understand why Helen can't come and see me: she only lives 200 yards away."



So to learn that Dominic Cummings was in Barnard Castle, 260 miles from his home in London, at a time when the government was discouraging tourism, is sickening.



https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/25/my-dad-died-lockdown-barnard-castle-dominic-cummingss-visit-repellent-county-durham-betrayed">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... m-betrayed">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/25/my-dad-died-lockdown-barnard-castle-dominic-cummingss-visit-repellent-county-durham-betrayed



🤔

[Borg Refinery]

I have to commend those posts once again.



'Getting Brexit done' at the cost of any principle is kind of wrong, as said - Bojo could do it without him.



The idea that the govt requires support of every kind no matter what they do, is way out of line. I'm certainly not a fan of Lab atm and won't vote Starmer at all, and Corbyn killed Lab's support with his dishonest Brexit policy, and his insane friend McDonnell among others..



But IMHO these guys take the biscuit. I really am appalled that this is the best we could come up with. (as for my notifications blowing up with inane drunken ranting, I've no idea what that stalky globule is saying, nor do I care in the slightest..   ).

[T00ts]

Also while you're scrabbling about trying justify his actions because of autism do you know that familiar surroundings and routine are very important for those with the condition,you know familiar surroundings like home and not being carted around the country and driven hundreds of miles.



Are you aware of the high percentage of those with autism languishing at her majesty's pleasure,can I expect many posts campaigning for them to be released?



While your at it will you also be campaigning against the massive cuts to mental health services and the social care budget which is badly affecting those with autism?



I won't be holding my breath.

I am also aware of autistic children. If this is true it would explain the SOS from his wife when she felt ill and couldn't cope and he went running. It would also explain the need for family members to be near at hand. Is it significant that he drove at night when the boy would sleep? Is it also significant that when having stopped in woodland for a pee it might have been difficult to return him to the car?



The more I think about it the more I believe this poor man has no wish to claim autism for his boy to the the general public. It's hardly fair to expect it. As far as funding for all forms of disability goes we all hope for better things for the disadvantaged.

[cromwell]

Also while you're scrabbling about trying justify his actions because of autism do you know that familiar surroundings and routine are very important for those with the condition,you know familiar surroundings like home and not being carted around the country and driven hundreds of miles.



Are you aware of the high percentage of those with autism languishing at her majesty's pleasure,can I expect many posts campaigning for them to be released?



While your at it will you also be campaigning against the massive cuts to mental health services and the social care budget which is badly affecting those with autism?



I won't be holding my breath.

[cromwell]

Then that is extremely relevant. He may well have needed to be cared for by someone he knows well. Again why should Cummings announce that? Like father like son then.

I know a lot about autism,anyway should this man be fined or jailed,just sorting things for his autistic son.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/northern-ireland-man-jailed-for-driving-to-kerry-to-buy-puppies-during-coronavirus-lockdown-claims-arrest-was-unfair-39145232.html">//https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/northern-ireland-man-jailed-for-driving-to-kerry-to-buy-puppies-during-coronavirus-lockdown-claims-arrest-was-unfair-39145232.html

[T00ts]

Lol maybe but more importantly his son is

Then that is extremely relevant. He may well have needed to be cared for by someone he knows well. Again why should Cummings announce that? Like father like son then.

[B0ycey]

The only people being played are those caught up in left wing /MSM feeding frenzy that is trying to undermine the government .

Whatever the motive, there are now more questions and more breaches. If that was to play on the MSN feeding frenzy, they are making them full.  ::

[Streetwalker]

I am fairly sure Cummings is on the autistic spectrum. After his interview today I was convinced.

Lol maybe but more importantly his son is