The Great British Withdrawal

[Barry]

The problem is there was not a full lockdown with severe sanctions for breaking it. It  would only have needed to last four weeks, before easing up on it.

Yep, you're right, we are all top grade epidemiologists now.

[papasmurf]

See, now this is the problem. You have been brainwashed into thinking any and all activity means the plague rears its head and the mass deaths you keep banging on about happening through poverty will actually occur through Covid 19

The problem is there was not a full lockdown with severe sanctions for breaking it.  It  would only have needed to last four weeks, before easing up on it.

[johnofgwent]

I am in favour of the lock down but it is those flouting it who are making it last longer. (Looking like the 2nd spike any day now.)

See, now this is the problem. You have been brainwashed into thinking any and all activity means the plague rears its head and the mass deaths you keep banging on about happening through poverty will actually occur through Covid 19



Dont you understand that the plague is out there and being spread and it will start killing as soon as anyone does anything BUT that we could stay locked down until 2925 and it would make sod all difference to.people dying when thel leave their homes....



And I just draw yourcattention to a response to effing gething's latest non announcement in the have your say comments on the BBC news wales pages



'And in would wait 500 days

And I would wait 500 more

Just to be the man who kept us locked down

Until the economy was no more



Da da da da.

Da da da da

Da da dum diddle um dum dum da da....

[B0ycey]

The government could create money to pay for all these things - print cash as they used to say.  It would have to be solely for making good the damage done by the pandemic. Then it needn't be inflationary, given all the lost value on things.

your solution for debt is more debt!



You have an appropriate name quackers. But it seems MMT is new to you. That is you can borrow as much as you like, but you have to bring in the tax in return. You can't just "print" (Debt monetization) and not expect the Weiner Republic.

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

How do you think the government is going to pay for their Covid response? I am not talking about the billions of pound handed out but the interest on bonds? If they plan on having a negative interest it is so they do not have to cut services and that line of thinkinh is something that isn't going to end any time soon. I doubt in both our life times we will see interest rates go above 1% now. So that has an impact. Because banks rely on savings for their fractional reserve and people only have savings to earn interest. You might be happy to pay your bank to hold your money, but I doubt many do. Those with a significant holdings will look abroad and those with a bit will put it under their beds. Because say paying 1% annun on a thousand pounds still means that you pay the bank a hundred quid in ten years. Not to mention unemployment too.



Shutting the economy down is easy. Opening it up again is f**king impossible.

The government could create money to pay for all these things - print cash as they used to say.  It would have to be solely for making good the damage done by the pandemic. Then it needn't be inflationary, given all the lost value on things.

[Javert]

Wasn't it you who said the Guardian published a lot of opinion pieces? That's one by Nick Cohen. What else would you expect form the Guardian? A Daily Mail article by Richard Littlejohn?

Yes - but the factual statements in it seem to verifiable.

[papasmurf]

He is a vocal supporter of the poor, but he acknowledges that lockdown will affect the poor most. That's something I suppose.

It is effecting the poor and vulnerable the most because of Tory policies.

[DeppityDawg]

To be fair, he is one of the most vocal supporters of the poor I've seen on any forum.



IIRC he was arguing for larger support measures for those struggling during lockdown.



And for other more extreme things of course   but let's leave it there.

He is a vocal supporter of the poor, but he acknowledges that lockdown will affect the poor most. That's something I suppose.

[DeppityDawg]

So Deppity isn't the result of your preferred options going to come available in time - Sweden is one example but it's a bit tricky because of culture and population density differences.  The US however has a lot looser lockdown than us, and are starting up again more quickly, which is what you appear to be advocating.



Doesn't that mean we can just watch the US and see how it pans out for them?



Also, Sweden is not necessarily doing that well - as you can see in this article, they actually had the highest deaths per capita last week of anywhere in the world, and they don't have herd immunity.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/may/23/sweden-covid-19-policy-model-for-right-also-a-deadly-folly">https://www.theguardian.com/world/comme ... adly-folly">https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/may/23/sweden-covid-19-policy-model-for-right-also-a-deadly-folly



Also Sweden's economy is also very badly hit - maybe not as bad as ours but not that far behind.



Of course in the end, it's arguable that more deaths will be caused by later recession and poverty, but even if you can model that, the same question I asked before remains - how do you communicate "Let your Granny die today in order to save 1.47383 deaths 3 years from now" or whatever it is.

Wasn't it you who said the Guardian published a lot of opinion pieces? That's one by Nick Cohen. What else would you expect form the Guardian? A Daily Mail article by Richard Littlejohn?

[B0ycey]

Also Sweden's economy is also very badly hit - maybe not as bad as ours but not that far behind.

I have never known much good by those who affected the trade of goods



The Swedish economy is effected because it has international trade and commerce with nations who had lockdown. Although they won't have to worry about paying the "financial" cost of huge borrowing.



As for deaths, do you think there is no chance of a second wave or something? A fast start doesn't mean you lead (or lose) when the race is over.

[Borg Refinery]

Please stop quoting incomplete parts of my post to nullify their meaning. The complete sentence included "when the results of all this come home to roost", meaning the results of lockdown.



Your posting history on the subject has been wholly in favour of lockdown, so it's hypocrisy to now acknowledge that lockdown will hurt the poorest the most. Not that hypocrisy is anything new where you are concerned.

To be fair, he is one of the most vocal supporters of the poor I've seen on any forum.



IIRC he was arguing for larger support measures for those struggling during lockdown.



And for other more extreme things of course   but let's leave it there.

[Javert]

Please stop quoting incomplete parts of my post to nullify their meaning. The complete sentence included "when the results of all this come home to roost", meaning the results of lockdown.



Your posting history on the subject has been wholly in favour of lockdown, so it's hypocrisy to now acknowledge that lockdown will hurt the poorest the most. Not that hypocrisy is anything new where you are concerned.

So Deppity isn't the result of your preferred options going to come available in time - Sweden is one example but it's a bit tricky because of culture and population density differences.  The US however has a lot looser lockdown than us, and are starting up again more quickly, which is what you appear to be advocating.



Doesn't that mean we can just watch the US and see how it pans out for them?



Also, Sweden is not necessarily doing that well - as you can see in this article, they actually had the highest deaths per capita last week of anywhere in the world, and they don't have herd immunity.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/may/23/sweden-covid-19-policy-model-for-right-also-a-deadly-folly">https://www.theguardian.com/world/comme ... adly-folly">https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/may/23/sweden-covid-19-policy-model-for-right-also-a-deadly-folly



Also Sweden's economy is also very badly hit - maybe not as bad as ours but not that far behind.



Of course in the end, it's arguable that more deaths will be caused by later recession and poverty, but even if you can model that, the same question I asked before remains - how do you communicate "Let your Granny die today in order to save 1.47383 deaths 3 years from now" or whatever it is.

[papasmurf]

Your posting history on the subject has been wholly in favour of lockdown,

I am in favour of the lock down but it is those flouting it who are making it last longer. (Looking like the 2nd spike any day now.)

[DeppityDawg]

That is currently 14 million people.

Please stop quoting incomplete parts of my post to nullify their meaning. The complete sentence included "when the results of all this come home to roost", meaning the results of lockdown.



Your posting history on the subject has been wholly in favour of lockdown, so it's hypocrisy to now acknowledge that lockdown will hurt the poorest the most. Not that hypocrisy is anything new where you are concerned.

[Borg Refinery]

So hold on, the economy closed down straightaway as soon as Boris said "there's a lockdown" and it happened with incredible ease? Have you been reading Fox news?