George Floyd Riots

[Thomas]

Ok I do see your point.



I feel Javert has been quite upfront about what he described as his comparatively middoe class upbringing; in one of the posts he said







That seems to be what he's saying in many of his posts and what it all boils down to. I see that a lot of folks latch on to poor cambodian orphans, or blacks in america etc as the latest cause celebre when it's fashionable to do so, true, I haven't seen enough of Javert's posts over time to properly discern any beliefs obe way or the other though, in fairness.

Im sorry , but i feel this is a bit of a diversion. My point is where are all these lefty tree hugging middle class bed wetters when bad things are happening to young  poor white boys?



Was he out protesting about wee kriss donald? Or about how the scottish police carried out vast amounts of stop and search unregulated and unchallenged for twenty years on poor white kids?



Where is his consistency?



All we hear is silence except when its fashionable to jump on the black lives matter bandwagon. A good trusty warm and cuddly subject like good old fashioned white racism against poor blacks.



Indeed , on another forum its wasnt so long ago javert was looking down his middle class nose at those stupid stupid white working class as deppity said when they voted for brexit and upset javerts apple cart.



Its nauseating listening to it.



You dont have to go to america to see vast prejudice and hatred  , its on javerts very own doorstep , not only in england and scotland , but we saw human rights abuses carried out in northern ireland on the white irish.



Touchy subject though that makes javert and his ilk uncomfortable , unlike warm  simple cuddly topics he enjoys.

[Streetwalker]

All lives matter.



When we having a white lives matter bandwagon for wee kris donald , the white glaswegian boy  executed by a racist asian gang  , and barely given a mention by the media many years back?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kriss_Donald">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kriss_Donald



The BBC came under severe criticism for it  from what i remember , with barely any coverage of the racist incident at the time on national news.



If they had given it a fraction of the airtime they gave to stephen lawrences murder , or this black american guy , wee kriss would be a household name worthy of his own bandwagon too.



Seems its only certain killings by those nasty white men that make certain lives matter when it suits. :roll:





utter total bollocks javert.



It really is.



Stop and search was a regualr occurance when i  was growing up in paisley and glasgow in the eighties when scotland had some of the worst knife crime incidents and killings in the western world.



People like me were regualrly targeted because of the background i came from , ie family members invovled in crime and the council estate i lived on.



Why is this acceptable for white kids , but deemed racist for blacks?



As deppity dawg told you  , you are merely displaying your middle class naivety of the world and how it works.



Scotland didnt have many ethnic minorities when i was growing up its true , but it was well known for sectarian prejudice and discrimination.



I have been stopped by the police many a time , and for a while when i was younger regualrly received a kicking from ther glesga polis too. I still have a scar on my lip from having a size  ten boot on my boat race .



There is good and bad polis , and prejudice and discrimination isnt the sole province of black people.



No one is suggesting what happened to george floyd was in any way acceptable , but the hand wringing from you middle class  lefty wet blankets really is something else.

 :hattip  :hattip

Excellent post Thomas .  

I think most of us who spent their teenage years in the inner citys would have similar stories and similar views of the Im a victim crap that is going on today .

[Borg Refinery]

Ok I do see your point.



I feel Javert has been quite upfront about what he described as his comparatively middoe class upbringing; in one of the posts he said

One way to look at it is that I was lucky and had an unfair head start. Another way to look at it might be that what I had was normal and how things should be for all children.

That seems to be what he's saying in many of his posts and what it all boils down to. I see that a lot of folks latch on to poor cambodian orphans, or blacks in america etc as the latest cause celebre when it's fashionable to do so, true, I haven't seen enough of Javert's posts over time to properly discern any beliefs obe way or the other though, in fairness.

[Thomas]

BRUTE FORCE Fears Police Scotland officers are 'playing down' brutality claims after top brass question complaint stats



A briefing by force chiefs revealed "excessive force" allegations rose during two three-month periods on the trot

[/b]



https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/3683217/police-scotland-complaints-brutality-assault/">https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/s ... y-assault/">https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/3683217/police-scotland-complaints-brutality-assault/

Police spat on and struck with human waste at sectarian riot in Glasgow

Police officers responding to mass sectarian violence in Glasgow were spat on and had human waste thrown at them, a Police Scotland chaplain has claimed.

[/b]



https://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/police-spat-and-struck-human-waste-sectarian-riot-glasgow-1408453">https://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish- ... ow-1408453">https://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/police-spat-and-struck-human-waste-sectarian-riot-glasgow-1408453





No society is perfect , and to suggest america is all bad while scotland or the wider uk is good is laughable.

[Thomas]

He's got a point tbh Thomas, it's not conducive to a healthy society is it, the cycle of violence and trouble continues.

No he hasnt got a point , i dont agree.



MY point is when are all the middle class lefty wet blankets going out protesting about the young white guys who receive the same treatment from the polis as their heroes in the black community in america do?



Two wrongs never make a right , without a doubt , but its the hypocrisy of the lefty middle class as deppity dawg insinuated that pisses me right off.

it's not conducive to a healthy society is it, the cycle of violence and trouble continues.

I agree , but we have already briefly touched on americas vast problems and issues . The glesga polis might get a baseball bat or hammer over the head ,while the yank polis are walking about in a society saturated by guns. I would be tooled up wae a gun if i lived there too.



The holier than thou black community , just like the council estate white communities of glasgow i come from , are far from innocent as well.



I was reading the other day about a black cop who regualrly gets abused and spat at by his own black community and classed as an uncle tom for simply being a policeman.



We dont hear half the stories of what is going on , and when we do , its all centred on any incident they can find of nasty white man being racist to make the liberal left feel good about themselves.

American cops cisited your country to get lessons from their new policing model

i know. I read the story.



We arent perfect by any stretch of the imagination as i have said. Prejudice , discrimination and bad policing happen in scotland too on a population that is 98% white.



Thats isnt a topic for javert to get all worked up over though is it?

Just read that Glesga had a big big reduction in knife crime as well due to their new strategies and less brutal approach.

Thats part of it , but to suggest the glesga polis are peerfect and whiter than white is laughable.



A lot of it was also to do with improvement in jobs and wealth , compared to where glasgow was in the eighties under labour  rule. Thats another story though.

I see that as a commendable thing, if the NY Cops are taking lessons from you then you must be doing something right.

The point is scotland had and does have its problems , no society is immune , but we dont hear of javert out protesting for jock lives matter eh? ::



Only trendy crusades like black lives matter .

[Borg Refinery]

He's got a point tbh Thomas, it's not conducive to a healthy society is it, the cycle of violence and trouble continues.



American cops cisited your country to get lessons from their new policing model



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/nyregion/us-police-leaders-visiting-scotland-get-lessons-on-avoiding-deadly-force.amp.html">https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... e.amp.html">https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/nyregion/us-police-leaders-visiting-scotland-get-lessons-on-avoiding-deadly-force.amp.html



It sounds good, that's better isn't it..

If armed people ratchet up emotions, the Scottish police seek to defuse them. They pay as much attention to moral standards as legal ones. They do not talk about "deadly" force and would shudder to see such words in their policies. Above all, a Scottish constable's measure of success is whether everyone involved, not just the police officers, survives the confrontation.



A Taser gun used by firearms officers in Scotland.

A Taser gun used by firearms officers in Scotland.

Credit...Kieran Dodds for The New York Times

"What do you think is a proportionate response?" Constable Higgins asked at one point. "An officer that's uninjured, but somebody's dead? Or an officer that is injured but somebody's alive and in custody?"

Just read that Glesga had a big big reduction in knife crime as well due to their new strategies and less brutal approach. Then there's the new anti drug strategy which will take time to take effect..



I see that as a commendable thing, if the NY Cops are taking lessons from you then you must be doing something right.

[Thomas]

Prior to the amalgamation of Scotland's eight police forces into Police Scotland in 2013 by the Scottish National Party government, Scottish policing generally enjoyed a 'cool' political climate, with low scrutiny and minimal political engagement. This paper argues these conditions hindered the critical interrogation of Scottish policing, allowing a policy of unregulated and unfettered stop and search to flourish unchallenged for two decades.



The use of stop and search in Scotland has generally avoided controversy. This situation changed in 2014 when research published by the Scottish Centre for Crime and Justice Research (Murray 2014) revealed that searches were being undertaken on an unprecedented scale (at a rate four times higher than England and Wales), that most searches were undertaken on a non-statutory basis, without legal authority, and fell disproportionately upon children and young people.

[/b]



https://academic.oup.com/bjc/article/57/4/885/2623982">https://academic.oup.com/bjc/article/57/4/885/2623982

[Thomas]

And that's ok is it?

Where did i say it was?

[Javert]

I have been stopped by the police many a time , and for a while when i was younger regualrly received a kicking from ther glesga polis too. I still have a scar on my lip from having a size  ten boot on my boat race .

And that's ok is it?

[Thomas]

Police in Scotland carry out four times more stop and searches than their colleagues in England and Wales, according to a new report.



Research by Edinburgh University found there were 64 searches per 1,000 people in 2010, compared with 17 south of the border.



The figures also suggested that young people were the most likely to be searched.



Police Scotland has insisted that the policy helps reduce crime.

[/b]



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25774462">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25774462

There has been a long-standing controversy surrounding Police Scotland's stop and search methods.

[/b]



https://glasgowguardian.co.uk/2019/11/30/stop-and-search-are-we-missing-the-point/">https://glasgowguardian.co.uk/2019/11/3 ... the-point/">https://glasgowguardian.co.uk/2019/11/30/stop-and-search-are-we-missing-the-point/

[Thomas]

I stand with the #BlackLivesMatter movement & if you're not horrified by what's happening right now you need to broaden your filter bubble & go read about it. It's time everybody joined the fight for justice. Justice for #GeorgeFloyd. Justice for EVERYONE in equal measure.

All lives matter.



When we having a white lives matter bandwagon for wee kris donald , the white glaswegian boy  executed by a racist asian gang  , and barely given a mention by the media many years back?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kriss_Donald">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kriss_Donald



The BBC came under severe criticism for it  from what i remember , with barely any coverage of the racist incident at the time on national news.



If they had given it a fraction of the airtime they gave to stephen lawrences murder , or this black american guy , wee kriss would be a household name worthy of his own bandwagon too.



Seems its only certain killings by those nasty white men that make certain lives matter when it suits. :roll:

 Most of the people posting on this forum don't have to experience that daily small incidents of discrimination and racism experienced by anyone who is from an ethnic minority. I also heard an interview this morning with a black guy who was an NBA basketball player and now a psychologist, describing how he is regularly stopped by the police at least 3 or 4 times a year without doing anything wrong other than being black. I am 51 years old and I have literally never once been stopped by the police for any reason on foot, nor on the road....

utter total bollocks javert.



It really is.



Stop and search was a regualr occurance when i  was growing up in paisley and glasgow in the eighties when scotland had some of the worst knife crime incidents and killings in the western world.



People like me were regualrly targeted because of the background i came from , ie family members invovled in crime and the council estate i lived on.



Why is this acceptable for white kids , but deemed racist for blacks?



As deppity dawg told you  , you are merely displaying your middle class naivety of the world and how it works.



Scotland didnt have many ethnic minorities when i was growing up its true , but it was well known for sectarian prejudice and discrimination.



I have been stopped by the police many a time , and for a while when i was younger regualrly received a kicking from ther glesga polis too. I still have a scar on my lip from having a size  ten boot on my boat race .



There is good and bad polis , and prejudice and discrimination isnt the sole province of black people.



No one is suggesting what happened to george floyd was in any way acceptable , but the hand wringing from you middle class  lefty wet blankets really is something else.

[Borg Refinery]

Stop the presses folks.



George Floyd and Derek Chauvin Were Once Co-Workers, Ex-Club Owner Tells TV Station



Maya Santamaria, former owner of El Nuevo Rodeo, said that both Floyd and Chauvin worked security at the club. She said that the two could have crossed paths, though Chauvin mostly worked outside as an off-duty officer, while Floyd primarily was inside as a bouncer. She wasn't sure if they knew each other.



"Chauvin was our off-duty police for almost the entirety of the 17 years that we were open," Santamaria told KSTP. "They were working together at the same time, it's just that Chauvin worked outside and the security guards were inside."



Santamaria also told the TV station that Chauvin "had a real short fuse," adding that he often pulled out mace and pepper spray when she thought it was unwarranted.



https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/865803157/george-floyd-and-derek-chauvin-were-co-workers-says-former-club-owner?t=1591460521909">https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/86580315 ... 1460521909">https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/865803157/george-floyd-and-derek-chauvin-were-co-workers-says-former-club-owner?t=1591460521909

[cromwell]

I'm pasting in below a Twitter Thread by Kate Russell which summarises pretty well the situation here.  Most of the people posting on this forum don't have to experience that daily small incidents of discrimination and racism experienced by anyone who is from an ethnic minority.  I also heard an interview this morning with a black guy who was an NBA basketball player and now a psychologist, describing how he is regularly stopped by the police at least 3 or 4 times a year without doing anything wrong other than being black.  I am 51 years old and I have literally never once been stopped by the police for any reason on foot, nor on the road....



Note how in the description below it was "every flight", not just a one off incident.  This is institutional racial discrimination in action, and no doubt the individual security guards concerned honestly believe that they are not racist.



.....

About 10 years ago I worked a lot with a black cameraman, Carlos. We travelled all over Europe together with a big news camera, which can't be put in an airplane hold, so Carlos would carry it on as hand-baggage. On every trip he would be pulled by security and questioned.



No surprise there, we're taking a hunk of electronics onto a flight. But it was the attitude he experienced that shocked me. I've travelled with a lot of white cameramen too. They were always pulled aside & questioned with polite authority & occasionally geeky interest...



But for Carlos, the experience was utterly different. From the get-go they would order him out of line & talk to him with a kind of suspicious aggression. They treated him like they assumed he was a criminal and the camera was not his. This made me so mad. Furious....



As a privileged white woman, I'm accustomed to using my fury as a weapon against perceived injustice. I'm not afraid to call someone out if they're delivering poor service or treating me/a friend unfairly. I am a frequent writer of snooty emails to customer relations...



The first time I travelled with Carlos and saw the way this man - one of the most cheerful, polite and just all-round stand-up nice British gents I know - was treated, I wanted to use that fury to tell those guards that this was NOT OK...



I wanted everyone in the security hall to know how I felt about them treating a professional man, who was going about his business and was owed the same kind of respect they showed everyone else, like a scummy criminal...



I wanted to loudly decry the injustice of their casual racism and embarrass them into changing.



Carols told me 'no'.



He persuaded me that unleashing my white privilege fury would just mean more trouble for him. And he was so damn cheerful and accepting of it all...



Every flight it was the same story, and I would quietly fume until Carlos had managed to get the first in-flight G&T into me...



Since #GeorgeFloyd was murdered by the police in broad daylight in America 10 days ago, I have watched the events unfold with utter horror..



I've seen peaceful protesters gassed outside the White House. I've seen police shooting rubber bullets out of car windows at protesters trying to flee the scene. Yesterday a 75 year old man on his own, was pushed to the floor by cops in riot gear...



The old man was left unconscious bleeding from his ear as the riot line marched on towards NO RIOT... All this police brutality on the back of the REASON they are protesting - the systemic prejudice and violence against black and brown people by officers of the law....



It's not just in the USA too. And it's not just the police. Racial prejudice is real. It is unforgivable in this modern era, and yet it is forgiven every day in so many ways. Sometimes out of need to survive, like my friend Carlos... but often out of ignorance or fear...



I agreed to keep my fury in check for Carlos. But for #GeorgeFloyd, things can't get worse. So now it's time to be furious.



I would've joined the march today in London if I could, but corona virus travel restrictions remain in play so this is my personal protest march..



I stand with the #BlackLivesMatter movement & if you're not horrified by what's happening right now you need to broaden your filter bubble & go read about it. It's time everybody joined the fight for justice. Justice for #GeorgeFloyd. Justice for EVERYONE in equal measure.

Well how much do people this side of the pond know about the Jim Crow laws which in reality to the age of the US didn't finish that long ago were in all but name apartheid and the legacy of those live on,forget about the way blacks have and are treated by law enforcement and the justice? system.....yeah I know how could you forget.



Well I was told how I'd be crapping myself were the riot squads to withdraw their services,I'd counter by asking how they would cope with the casual day to day racism endemic in the US and in what way they'd react.....probably not like the patience of the bloke in this clip.

[Javert]

I'm pasting in below a Twitter Thread by Kate Russell which summarises pretty well the situation here.  Most of the people posting on this forum don't have to experience that daily small incidents of discrimination and racism experienced by anyone who is from an ethnic minority.  I also heard an interview this morning with a black guy who was an NBA basketball player and now a psychologist, describing how he is regularly stopped by the police at least 3 or 4 times a year without doing anything wrong other than being black.  I am 51 years old and I have literally never once been stopped by the police for any reason on foot, nor on the road....



Note how in the description below it was "every flight", not just a one off incident.  This is institutional racial discrimination in action, and no doubt the individual security guards concerned honestly believe that they are not racist.



.....

About 10 years ago I worked a lot with a black cameraman, Carlos. We travelled all over Europe together with a big news camera, which can't be put in an airplane hold, so Carlos would carry it on as hand-baggage. On every trip he would be pulled by security and questioned.



No surprise there, we're taking a hunk of electronics onto a flight. But it was the attitude he experienced that shocked me. I've travelled with a lot of white cameramen too. They were always pulled aside & questioned with polite authority & occasionally geeky interest...



But for Carlos, the experience was utterly different. From the get-go they would order him out of line & talk to him with a kind of suspicious aggression. They treated him like they assumed he was a criminal and the camera was not his. This made me so mad. Furious....



As a privileged white woman, I'm accustomed to using my fury as a weapon against perceived injustice. I'm not afraid to call someone out if they're delivering poor service or treating me/a friend unfairly. I am a frequent writer of snooty emails to customer relations...



The first time I travelled with Carlos and saw the way this man - one of the most cheerful, polite and just all-round stand-up nice British gents I know - was treated, I wanted to use that fury to tell those guards that this was NOT OK...



I wanted everyone in the security hall to know how I felt about them treating a professional man, who was going about his business and was owed the same kind of respect they showed everyone else, like a scummy criminal...



I wanted to loudly decry the injustice of their casual racism and embarrass them into changing.



Carols told me 'no'.



He persuaded me that unleashing my white privilege fury would just mean more trouble for him. And he was so damn cheerful and accepting of it all...



Every flight it was the same story, and I would quietly fume until Carlos had managed to get the first in-flight G&T into me...



Since #GeorgeFloyd was murdered by the police in broad daylight in America 10 days ago, I have watched the events unfold with utter horror..



I've seen peaceful protesters gassed outside the White House. I've seen police shooting rubber bullets out of car windows at protesters trying to flee the scene. Yesterday a 75 year old man on his own, was pushed to the floor by cops in riot gear...



The old man was left unconscious bleeding from his ear as the riot line marched on towards NO RIOT... All this police brutality on the back of the REASON they are protesting - the systemic prejudice and violence against black and brown people by officers of the law....



It's not just in the USA too. And it's not just the police. Racial prejudice is real. It is unforgivable in this modern era, and yet it is forgiven every day in so many ways. Sometimes out of need to survive, like my friend Carlos... but often out of ignorance or fear...



I agreed to keep my fury in check for Carlos. But for #GeorgeFloyd, things can't get worse. So now it's time to be furious.



I would've joined the march today in London if I could, but corona virus travel restrictions remain in play so this is my personal protest march..



I stand with the #BlackLivesMatter movement & if you're not horrified by what's happening right now you need to broaden your filter bubble & go read about it. It's time everybody joined the fight for justice. Justice for #GeorgeFloyd. Justice for EVERYONE in equal measure.

[Borg Refinery]

Well neither did the UK paper seller hands in pockets who died,how easily a shove over can lead to someone dying,having said all that I think police in the UK are much better trained and in the main behaved.

I was at that one.



They sent police horses into a kettled crowd where they stampeded peaceful protesters - am amazed there weren't loads of serious injuries.



I felt someone's head 'crack' in front of me with a baton. 🤔 Again they weren't fighting..



Anyway..that's our guys who are much better than the police over there, and I'm not a commie anymore. Not been to a protest since 2010.. And I think most cops in this country are very good at their job, but I *think* they do send rougher cops to protests... reasonabler ones don't wanna have to do that.



Then there's the agent provocateurs..and false intel fed by FIT (fwd intel team) officers to get the trouble brewing artificially at peaceful protests, it's complex.