George Floyd Riots

[Borg Refinery]

The kick-offery has spread to Paris now.

[Borg Refinery]

Wow. These riots are national. Coast to coast. During a time of a "pandemic!"



I'll pick on this as an entry point for my 2p worth



The obvious question to ask now is how many of the protestors are themselves black or ethnic minorities.



I ask because as I have pointed out for months, on here, on the BBC Have Your Say Pages, On Arse Book and to my MP and all my AMS and all my councillors, the NHS declared over a decade ago that such people were up to eight times more likely to need an organ transplant than a white man because their genetics meant their organs were not as robust as a white man's and THAT is why if you take 100 white people and 100 black and ethnic people who have just tested positive for coronavirus having dialled the NHS to call for help having discovered they have the symptoms, MORE, indeed some may say FAR MORE blacks and ethnics from that group of 100 WILL DIE than will those in the group of whites.



And this is down the the cold equations. The cruel mechanics of biology and chemistry. Their organs are not as capable of resisting massive attack as the organs of whites. end Of. Period. Declared by the NHS as the reason why they need more black and ethnic donors.  Published even today on the pages of the Lonsdon Assembly. Published in an EU-WIDE campaign to raise awareness of the need for organ donation rates in the black and ethnic communities of europe to increase for their own good because the other problem is that many of those people are not able to take organs from white people. And MIXED RACE people have a whole load of problems like that from both sides.



I'm sure Stephen Lawrence's mum is even now using her free £330 daily state handout to twist this fact of genetics to be yet another matter of white privilege. However, as a scientist and a firm believer in Darwinian Natural Selection, I cannot but help think the problem of those protestors will to some extent resolve itself in the next 14 days.



Cruel?  Of course.



Racist ? Not a bit. Because biology is not interested in politics.

Strangely enough, 'white people' are also predisposed to certain conditions.



https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2013/10/109521/whites-more-prone-certain-heart-condition-other-ethnic-groups">https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2013/10/10952 ... nic-groups">https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2013/10/109521/whites-more-prone-certain-heart-condition-other-ethnic-groups



You could turn that into a long rant too if you wanted, or you could point to the possibility that 'black' and 'ethnics' is such a wide net that includes people from as far as Bhutan to Indonesia to Kenya, that it's a waste of time mentioning it - especially as a scientist.. that's disappointing; but I forget that you are ex-BNP and have a certain anti-scientific agenda to push... the thread title and your interjection now makes plenty of sense.



https://patient.info/doctor/diseases-and-different-ethnic-groups">https://patient.info/doctor/diseases-an ... nic-groups">https://patient.info/doctor/diseases-and-different-ethnic-groups

[Nalaar]

In this clip, high definition (by luck of a nearby TV camera crew) this car is stopped, has its windows smashed, tyres slahsed, occupants tased, and dragged out of the car.



https://twitter.com/brittm_tv/status/1267147449577148423?s=21">//%20https://twitter.com/brittm_tv/status/1267147449577148423?s=21

Small update on this event - The district attorney has brought charges against 6 officers involved.

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/da-charges-six-apd-officers-use-excessive-force-2-college-students/PY2HPZW5TZA3DCVHDTRHQYJJAA/">//%20https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/da-charges-six-apd-officers-use-excessive-force-2-college-students/PY2HPZW5TZA3DCVHDTRHQYJJAA/

[Borchester]

I never did any such thing. I don't "swallow" anything I look at the evidence.



https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/uk-population-by-ethnicity/demographics/people-living-in-deprived-neighbourhoods/latest#main-facts-and-figures">https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/uk-population-by-ethnicity/demographics/people-living-in-deprived-neighbourhoods/latest#main-facts-and-figures

Exactly. And the first thing you noticed was that folk are protesting police brutality in Atlanta, Minneapolis, New York, Baltimore and Los Angeles.



Which are liberal strong holds.Where the mayors usually appoint the police chiefs.



As you say Pappy, the evidence suggests that Liberalism/socialism is a bit crap.

[papasmurf]

As I have pointed out to papasmurf who seems hell bent on swallowing the "all blacks live in abject poverty" bullshit,

I never did any such thing. I don't "swallow" anything I look at the evidence.



https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/uk-population-by-ethnicity/demographics/people-living-in-deprived-neighbourhoods/latest#main-facts-and-figures">https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/uk-population-by-ethnicity/demographics/people-living-in-deprived-neighbourhoods/latest#main-facts-and-figures

[johnofgwent]

Your post comes across as if the increased deaths in those communities are 100% caused by genetics and nothing to do with other society factors.

As I have pointed out to papasmurf who seems hell bent on swallowing the "all blacks live in abject poverty" bullshit, the facts are that round here, in newport, the highest covid 19 hotspot for fifty miles in all directions, there are no racially segregated ghettoes. There are ghettoes, and there are people living on the breadline. But they are a veritable pot-pourri of colours, races, languages, religions and cultures.



Yet the fact remains that more of the blacks and ethnics are dying than the whites whether those whites be english, romanian, serbian or latvian.



If it were the factors the BBC and Lady Doreen of Lawrence wish to push aided and abetted in the latetr case by Kier Starmer and co, the death would be in direct proportion to those ghetto residency ethnicity criteria.



They are most definitely not.



As you say, I am a scientist. Specifically I am a scientist turned engineer, and the science i pursued when i was a scientist was the manner by which material penetrated the cell membrane and was absorbed into the cell's intracellular metabolic processes.



I'm quite happy to accept that those living cheek by jowl in a crowded slum, or working in hot desked call centre cubicles, or eating a diet that does nothing to help their immune system, are going to be at greater risk of falling foul of this plague than others more affluent.



But the most affluent round here are largely non white and as I point out, there is no particularly marked racial line in any of the above higher risk areas.



Yet the facts are there. As you clearly accept, there seems to be something else going on.



No one who has studied the subjects I have can fail to see the obvious extra factor.



Colour blindness is clearly still a problem at the BBC and other media.

[Borchester]

In short, I am absolutely sure that poverty, crowded housing and occupation do have a role to play. But that role is dished out to white, brownand black in almost equal measure in my neck of the woods. Those who do not suffer the immigrant density that Newport, Cardiff, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Blackburn, etc do need to bear in mind the ghettoes are still there, but they speak all the languages of Babel these days. Including English, French, Romanian, Serbo-Croat and Greek.

Good point.



Atlanta, where so many protestors are looting in memory of George Floyd, has lost a quarter of its black population in the last thirty years. I imagine that they have gotten a few quid ahead of the game and moved to the suburbs, where they watch the riots in their comfortable middle class homes and wonder if it is not time Donald Trump did something about the white trash acting like trash.

[Javert]

Wow. These riots are national. Coast to coast. During a time of a "pandemic!"



I'll pick on this as an entry point for my 2p worth



The obvious question to ask now is how many of the protestors are themselves black or ethnic minorities.



I ask because as I have pointed out for months, on here, on the BBC Have Your Say Pages, On Arse Book and to my MP and all my AMS and all my councillors, the NHS declared over a decade ago that such people were up to eight times more likely to need an organ transplant than a white man because their genetics meant their organs were not as robust as a white man's and THAT is why if you take 100 white people and 100 black and ethnic people who have just tested positive for coronavirus having dialled the NHS to call for help having discovered they have the symptoms, MORE, indeed some may say FAR MORE blacks and ethnics from that group of 100 WILL DIE than will those in the group of whites.



And this is down the the cold equations. The cruel mechanics of biology and chemistry. Their organs are not as capable of resisting massive attack as the organs of whites. end Of. Period. Declared by the NHS as the reason why they need more black and ethnic donors.  Published even today on the pages of the Lonsdon Assembly. Published in an EU-WIDE campaign to raise awareness of the need for organ donation rates in the black and ethnic communities of europe to increase for their own good because the other problem is that many of those people are not able to take organs from white people. And MIXED RACE people have a whole load of problems like that from both sides.



I'm sure Stephen Lawrence's mum is even now using her free £330 daily state handout to twist this fact of genetics to be yet another matter of white privilege. However, as a scientist and a firm believer in Darwinian Natural Selection, I cannot but help think the problem of those protestors will to some extent resolve itself in the next 14 days.



Cruel?  Of course.



Racist ? Not a bit. Because biology is not interested in politics.

Your post comes across as if the increased deaths in those communities are 100% caused by genetics and nothing to do with other society factors.  As a scientist you should then be aware that things are never that simple - the report that was released the other day seems to show that the increase in BAME deaths and hospitalisation from Covid-19 is partly due to society factors and increased risk of exposure, but also, and this is where you are correct, seems to be partly un-explainable other than by fact of ethnicity.



To be clear, I'm sure you are correct that some of the underlying cause is that those people are genetically more likely to have organ transplant needs etc.  This is no secret and has been known by the world medical community for a long time.



There is of course a reluctance by politicians to discuss this in political formats, because of course they know it will be used by far right groups to claim that white people are genetically superior to black people.  I'm pretty sure there will be other things we could bring up where black people are on average genetically superior to white people in some other very marginal way - this is irrelevant to human rights.



The first element of this is due to society wide discrimination going back hundreds of years.  I'm not blaming any individual for that but it's just a known fact.  If black people had first discovered the industrial revolution and so on, we would probably be having the same arguments the other way around.  However that doesn't make it inherently just.

[papasmurf]

As I said in my post



Take a look around you FFS.

That would not reflect on the national picture where a white bus or taxi driver is a rare as rocking horse poo as are care workers, and many other occupations that bring people into close contact with others.

[johnofgwent]

It isn't nationally. Especially crowded housing and occupation.

How do you know ? There are no ONS statistics. I looked

[papasmurf]

In short, I am absolutely sure that poverty, crowded housing and occupation do have a role to play. But that role is dished out to white, brownand black in almost equal measure in my neck of the woods.

It isn't nationally. Especially crowded housing and occupation.

[johnofgwent]

I am in no doubt that  those play a part, but so does poverty, crowded housing, and occupation.

As I said in my post



"I'm sure Stephen Lawrence's mum is even now using her free £330 daily state handout to twist this fact of genetics to be yet another matter of white privilege"



Take a look around you FFS.



There are no blacks or ethnics in tents in Newport's High Street. Only whites. Admittedly many of them don't speak English, only Romanian, but I can't help that. In Newport, Cardiff and Bristol the sink estates and slums sector are no longer filled with blacks as they were in my grandmother's day. In Pill, most are filled with a diverse mix of people all beholden to asian landlords who live in my estate.



In short, I am absolutely sure that poverty, crowded housing and occupation do have a role to play. But that role is dished out to white, brownand black in almost equal measure in my neck of the woods. Those who do not suffer the immigrant density that Newport, Cardiff, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Blackburn, etc do need to bear in mind the ghettoes are still there, but they speak all the languages of Babel these days. Including English, French, Romanian, Serbo-Croat and Greek.

[papasmurf]

 The cruel mechanics of biology and chemistry.

I am in no doubt that  those play a part, but so does poverty, crowded housing, and occupation.

[johnofgwent]

Workers of the world, unite!



Wow. These riots are national. Coast to coast. During a time of a "pandemic!" It just goes to show what power people have if focused on a goal.



I heard the intensity of the riots might be linked to the sudden high unemployment along with the race divide of course. You cannot stop cultural changes and Capitalism contradictions altering our viewpoint.  Trump may tweet tough, but this is a huge turning point. He is going to have to yield somewhere. Naturally Chauvin will be thrown under the bus but what else to calm tensions?



Watch this space. The people are waking up to their class distinction and when that happens they won't accept bourgeois BS.

Wow. These riots are national. Coast to coast. During a time of a "pandemic!"



I'll pick on this as an entry point for my 2p worth



The obvious question to ask now is how many of the protestors are themselves black or ethnic minorities.



I ask because as I have pointed out for months, on here, on the BBC Have Your Say Pages, On Arse Book and to my MP and all my AMS and all my councillors, the NHS declared over a decade ago that such people were up to eight times more likely to need an organ transplant than a white man because their genetics meant their organs were not as robust as a white man's and THAT is why if you take 100 white people and 100 black and ethnic people who have just tested positive for coronavirus having dialled the NHS to call for help having discovered they have the symptoms, MORE, indeed some may say FAR MORE blacks and ethnics from that group of 100 WILL DIE than will those in the group of whites.



And this is down the the cold equations. The cruel mechanics of biology and chemistry. Their organs are not as capable of resisting massive attack as the organs of whites. end Of. Period. Declared by the NHS as the reason why they need more black and ethnic donors.  Published even today on the pages of the Lonsdon Assembly. Published in an EU-WIDE campaign to raise awareness of the need for organ donation rates in the black and ethnic communities of europe to increase for their own good because the other problem is that many of those people are not able to take organs from white people. And MIXED RACE people have a whole load of problems like that from both sides.



I'm sure Stephen Lawrence's mum is even now using her free £330 daily state handout to twist this fact of genetics to be yet another matter of white privilege. However, as a scientist and a firm believer in Darwinian Natural Selection, I cannot but help think the problem of those protestors will to some extent resolve itself in the next 14 days.



Cruel?  Of course.



Racist ? Not a bit. Because biology is not interested in politics.

[Javert]

How about your own "unconscious" Biases Javert? Your whole initial contribution to the thread was based on Trumps answer being to "shoot unarmed black citizens" which he never even said (he never mentioned any skin colour, and though we all know Trump is an idiot, we also all know that ISN'T policy and would never be accepted even in the USA) and foolish remarks like "if rioters won't disperse then you have to shoot them or do nothing"  - this makes you appear at best naïve and at worse the exact kind of Antifa idiot that he complains about? There was nothing in your argument that balanced this distorted view until I challenged it. Is that what you really think its like, or more how you want it to appear?

er.... isn't that how a political debate should work.  I made a point, you countered it, I addressed your point, and may have even modified or clarified my position.  Isn't that how a debate is supposed to work?



Secondly, I'm a bit puzzled by several references you've made that Trump wasn't advocating violence against peaceful protesters just because he didn't make it "official US government policy".



Based on this, I hope you don't have a conversation with a mafia don who says "Be careful out there, it's a dangerous city.  We wouldn't want you or your family to have any unfortunate accidents would we?"  Well he didn't specifically say he was going to hurt or kill you.  In fact he said the opposite.



Have you looked at Trump's twitter feed and the things he says?

There's been very little in this entire thread that's balanced as far as I can see (that's just my opinion though) - just the usual "Trump stump" stuff and reams of lines like the above about unconscious bias, institutional racism, and very little about why people are arrested, what happens when they resist, that despite the bad ones among them, the Police are often in impossible situations, or that looting whole streets and assaulting shop owners is not really the right attention you want drawing to the problem, because it destroys the message.

Well you haven't really clarified whether you think this institutional racism or society bias exists or not or whether all this data is simply wrong.

As for the stuff about other countries, we have people here in the UK that die in Police custody or during arrest, and I'm sure other countries do too. I haven't looked at the figures, but you'd probably find that the percentages on an ethnicity basis would match those of the USA - what stands out about the USA is that its inequality is on a whole different scale to that of, say, European countries. The other point is that every day, across the USA and other "western countries" (I mention that because you make appear that bias and discrimination ONLY exists in developed western economies and every other nation on earth is a virtual paradise  :roll: ),  tens of thousands of people will be arrested and taken in to custody without much in the way of incident in what are often difficult circumstances. No one has mentioned either the good ones, the Police officers who are doing their jobs to the best of their ability out there over the last few nights, some of whom have been injured and shot, or examples like the National Guard section that dropped to one knee in respect in front of demonstrators. Still, theres nothing to get twisted up about Trump in that though, is there?

Indeed, but that doesn't change the clear data indicating bias, and saying that country x is worse, doesn't make it right or wrong.  I have not claimed that every arrest is brutal or every police officer is consciously biased.