Masks or hand sanitizer?

[papasmurf]

I would like to point out that the government states face coverings NOT masks. There is a difference.



https://www.jmmedical.co.uk/Files/110156/Img/21/703-000-00-view4-jpg-2014.jpg">

[Borg Refinery]

No problem locally, one of the pubs is doing a bring your own bucket for takeaway beer.

Perfect to tip over the heads of unsuspecting holidaymakers.



(Apparently now a problem in hastings too - even my flatemate "I'm going to a party on the beach")

[papasmurf]

This is a little bit like their "don't go to the pubs!" <wink wink> approach that just left confusion.

No problem locally, one of the pubs is doing a bring your own bucket for takeaway beer.

[Barry]

However the government could issue guidelines that masks be worn in all settings

 :roll:

[BeElBeeBub]

I do suspect that a lot of the delays are caused by them having to pass or amend bespoke laws each time?   If I remember correctly they refused to use the existing civil contingencies act for all this.  I'm not sure why but knowing them it will have something to do with avoiding scrutiny and any opposition or judiciary having the ability to ask them awkward questions or force them to reveal the actual data and details of the decision process.

good point.



However the government could issue guidelines that masks be worn in all settings ahead of the legislative change



That would make it much easier for supermarkets (for example) to have a masks only policy.



This is a little bit like their "don't go to the pubs!" <wink wink> approach that just left confusion.

[Javert]

We'll look at this,



After "masks aren't effective" now making wearing them on transport mandatory



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52927089">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52927089



But weirdly only from the 15th. Seems odd....if they are useful in 11 days time why are they not useful now?



There is possibly an argument 5hwt people need time to prepare but surely everyone has a scarf, bandana, snood or something they can use.





Failing that, is it beyond our government to procure several hundred thousand 60cm X 60cm cotton squares - basically bandanas, to give away on busses, trains etc to those who really don't have them?



If it's valid for public transport, why not shops or other indoor spaces like offices?

I do suspect that a lot of the delays are caused by them having to pass or amend bespoke laws each time?   If I remember correctly they refused to use the existing civil contingencies act for all this.  I'm not sure why but knowing them it will have something to do with avoiding scrutiny and any opposition or judiciary having the ability to ask them awkward questions or force them to reveal the actual data and details of the decision process.

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

It's good that masks are going to become mandatory on public transport. But why not immediately?  Why wait for 11 days?   Lots of stupid people will think to themselves "I don't have to wear a mask yet, so I'm not going to."  



What I want to know is why the government hasn't made mask wearing compulsory in shops, both for customers and staff. And in the absence of the government doing this, why haven't any supermarkets introduced their own policy of compulsory masks?

[papasmurf]

If Bojo had his way we'd be doing the herd immunity thing, we know this, and he'd push it even now if it wasn't for external pressure forcing him to shut up about it.

I will laugh if Bojo catches another dose of Covid 19.

[Borg Refinery]

It very well may be that outside transmission is much less likely with greater distance, high airflow and (currently) large amounts of UV.



I imagine the risk increases as you get closer. 6 people well distanced in a garden is probably low risk.



A busy beer garden higher



A festival even more so or busy train station even more so



Plus people often go inside from outside (shock!).



Donning and doffing masks as you move from one shop, to the street and back, or off a tube on to the platform and back on a tub seems like a recipe for confusion and non-compliance.



In the same way we have PPE signs at industrial facilities (hard hat signs, toe caps, hearing pro etc) we could have the same in public.



My main point is the government don't seem to be leading on this. Logically, it would seem that if hand washing is effective (which they seem to think it is) then it is probable that mask wearing will have at least some beneficial effect but *only* if adopted widely

This govt doesn't lead on anything, are you really surprised they carry on coming out with contradictory and confused messaging?



Maybe it would be preferable, as in Belarus, to set up some third sector advice network to get things working and simply ignore a lot of their bollocks. If Bojo had his way we'd be doing the herd immunity thing, we know this, and he'd push it even now if it wasn't for external pressure forcing him to shut up about it.

[BeElBeeBub]

We'll look at this,



After "masks aren't effective" now making wearing them on transport mandatory



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52927089">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52927089



But weirdly only from the 15th. Seems odd....if they are useful in 11 days time why are they not useful now?



There is possibly an argument 5hwt people need time to prepare but surely everyone has a scarf, bandana, snood or something they can use.





Failing that, is it beyond our government to procure several hundred thousand 60cm X 60cm cotton squares - basically bandanas, to give away on busses, trains etc to those who really don't have them?



If it's valid for public transport, why not shops or other indoor spaces like offices?

[BeElBeeBub]

Indeed. Although there is evidence that the spread of the virus outside is negligible.



I don't know if it practical or enforceable to make mask wearing compulsory as soon as you go outside, but in certain environments it can be. And the environments you could enforce mask wearing best are usually indoors where the risk is anyways.

It very well may be that outside transmission is much less likely with greater distance, high airflow and (currently) large amounts of UV.



I imagine the risk increases as you get closer. 6 people well distanced in a garden is probably low risk.



A busy beer garden higher



A festival even more so or busy train station even more so



Plus people often go inside from outside (shock!).



Donning and doffing masks as you move from one shop, to the street and back, or off a tube on to the platform and back on a tub seems like a recipe for confusion and non-compliance.



In the same way we have PPE signs at industrial facilities (hard hat signs, toe caps, hearing pro etc) we could have the same in public.



My main point is the government don't seem to be leading on this. Logically, it would seem that if hand washing is effective (which they seem to think it is) then it is probable that mask wearing will have at least some beneficial effect but *only* if adopted widely

[johnofgwent]

Not open yet but when they are they are as I just described. It was a national scandal before Covid-19. Practically none will be fit for purpose when reopened.

It has been a while since I donned scuba gear but having done so int he past along most of the dorset, devon and cornwall coast that's accessible by car or 10m dive boat, lets just say yes. I know

[B0ycey]

The public health message on mask is really weak.  It only works if the majority wear masks.  Half hearted campaigns are a waste of time, and the best time to deliver the message is as lockdown is relaxed as you can frame it as a substitution - "in order to allow us to leave our houses we must all wear masks, it's a simple choice"

Indeed. Although there is evidence that the spread of the virus outside is negligible.



I don't know if it practical or enforceable to make mask wearing compulsory as soon as you go outside, but in certain environments it can be. And the environments you could enforce mask wearing best are usually indoors where the risk is anyways.

[papasmurf]

"When you use a public toilet do you flush? Why do you flush?

If the flush works.

[Borg Refinery]

Best slogan I saw was really simple.



"My mask protects you, your mask protects me"



Wear a mask covering your nose and mouth in any public indoor space or outside if you can't stay more than 2m away at all times



Frame it a basic politeness.



"When you use a public toilet do you flush? Why do you flush? Flushing doesn't benefit you directly, but imagine a world where nobody bothered to flush"

It's not me you need to be explaining this to.



As an aside, a kind soul has sent me some masks which I hope will arrive shortly.