United States Presidential election - 2020

[DeppityDawg]

One of the reasons im looking forward to brexit in 6 weeks is perhaps we can all finally move on from this never feckin ending whinge about brexit from bad losers like javert and quack quack.

Javert and Quackers will have feck all to talk about...except um....'look, Coronavirus!!!...hide under the bed" 

And Gerry T will have to find somewhere else to export his novelty Leprechaun hats 

[Borg Refinery]

You might as well give me your money as we've already left.

You really are unbelievable, so you're too a-frit to do this fairly then are you?

Shows how much you believe in Bojo.

[Borg Refinery]

IMHO, the FBI needs to investigate what happened in the US election.

[Nick]

Tell me what part of the recent developments fills you with any confidence in any reason to think he's going to take us out the EU?

Heck, I'll even place bets against you if you want to put money on the line. Say a tenner if you want, if he u-turn's and we donnt leave OR do leave but with a 100% concesdion-to-the-EU deal - you send a tenner to the NHS or something and if I'm wrong and we get a full hard Brexit -then I'll do it.

Are you in?

You might as well give me your money as we've already left.

You really are a Bojo loyalist.

No, I'm a capitalist pure and simple.

[Thomas]

So....the next US Presidential election (2024) will be the decider of this one then...is that what you are saying?

Why don't you just admit you are a bad loser, and that you've spent the last 4 years crying like a baby and dreaming up all sorts of absurd scenarios which would stop Brexit?

pretty much deppity , you know how it goes.

When nice things happen in democracy la la land like trump being voted out........alls well and fine and dandy in quackers world. Democracy is good. When it doesnt like brexit , its not fair , someone lied , someone used mind control over the voters , we must have a re run till we get the correct result from quackers perspective.

To be honest deppity its been like groundhog day on here for quite a while now. One of the reasons im looking forward to brexit in 6 weeks is perhaps we can all finally move on from this never feckin ending whinge about brexit from bad losers like javert and quack quack.

[DeppityDawg]

I always said there should have been a second referendum and effectively the general election of 2019 was that second vote

So....the next US Presidential election (2024) will be the decider of this one then...is that what you are saying?

Why don't you just admit you are a bad loser, and that you've spent the last 4 years crying like a baby and dreaming up all sorts of absurd scenarios which would stop Brexit?

[Borg Refinery]

So Gina Miller did nothing to frustrate Brexit then? Then May did everything to give us a diluted Brexit. In reality it's only been moving a pace since Boris got in.

You really are a Bojo loyalist.

Tell me what part of the recent developments fills you with any confidence in any reason to think he's going to take us out the EU?

Heck, I'll even place bets against you if you want to put money on the line. Say a tenner if you want, if he u-turn's and we donnt leave OR do leave but with a 100% concesdion-to-the-EU deal - you send a tenner to the NHS or something and if I'm wrong and we get a full hard Brexit -then I'll do it.

Are you in?

[Nick]

I don't accept that as nothing that I did had any effect - Brexit proceeded exactly as it would have done. 

However let's say for the sake of argument I accept that it's all the fault of remainers that Brexit wasn't magnificently completed in 2016.

What about the last year?  For the last year hardline Brexiteers have been completely in control of the UK government, and it still doesn't seem to be going too well?

So if there is chaos or major problems early next year, I'm sure you will try to claim it's the fault of remainers, but it's completely nonsensical because leavers have been in 100% control for the last year.

So Gina Miller did nothing to frustrate Brexit then? Then May did everything to give us a diluted Brexit. In reality it's only been moving a pace since Boris got in.

[Thomas]

We've been here before and I have pointed out that what you wrote above is just an opinion.  There is no such law or rule in any democratic country in the world today that says that a democratic decision cannot be reversed by another democratic decision before it's 100% implemented, especially if the original decision was something completely undefined.

There isnt and i never said there is any law which states such a thing , so top making yet more stuff up again.

What i said to you if you hold a ref , you need to implement the result or there will be a predictable backlash. You still havent seemed to have learned this , despite all that has happened in the last four years.

6 weeks to go then you can recampaign to join the eu javert , and democracy will be satisifed.

Fundamentally as we 've discussed before, the above principle is one that you claim is the biblical law handed down through millenia, mainly because you are terrified that if people do vote to go independent in Scotland, they might have second thoughts once they see the details of what that really means - therefore the argument that referendums can never be reversed is vitally important to your Scotland situation.

sure people in scotland may very well have second thoughts about rejoining the union if we vote to leave , however as i pointed out to you time and again

1. Once any refrendum result is implemented , and political party in scotland can campaign to rejoin the union.

2. out of 63 countries that were part of the british empire , from world powers like the yanks to banana republics , not one single nation has wanted to rejoin once out.

Im not afraid of democracy , you are javert , you are terrified of it.

[Javert]

You use this 4 years nonsense as if we've had a few years of Brexit and it hasn't worked out. The reality is you lot have fought tooth and nail to frustrate the process. That's why we are where we are.

I don't accept that as nothing that I did had any effect - Brexit proceeded exactly as it would have done. 

However let's say for the sake of argument I accept that it's all the fault of remainers that Brexit wasn't magnificently completed in 2016.

What about the last year?  For the last year hardline Brexiteers have been completely in control of the UK government, and it still doesn't seem to be going too well?

So if there is chaos or major problems early next year, I'm sure you will try to claim it's the fault of remainers, but it's completely nonsensical because leavers have been in 100% control for the last year.

[Javert]

rubbish. Whose fault is it brexit hasnt been implemented four years and counting after the vote?

If you hold a referendum , you implement the result no matter how long it takes. Not anti demcoratically drag it out using every trick in the book to renege on implementing the vote , then turn round and say times up years later.

That really is a crock of shit that has been dealt with time and again.

In 6 weeks time once brexit has been implemented , then democracy says you can start recampaigning to join. Or should i use the inverse anti demcoratic logic you are displaying and say if you havent had a referendum within the next four years and won it to rejoin the eu , then you can't do so ever again.?

I wouldnt say that though javert , because unlike you im not an anti democrat .

We've been here before and I have pointed out that what you wrote above is just an opinion.  There is no such law or rule in any democratic country in the world today that says that a democratic decision cannot be reversed by another democratic decision before it's 100% implemented, especially if the original decision was something completely undefined.

Fundamentally as we 've discussed before, the above principle is one that you claim is the biblical law handed down through millenia, mainly because you are terrified that if people do vote to go independent in Scotland, they might have second thoughts once they see the details of what that really means - therefore the argument that referendums can never be reversed is vitally important to your Scotland situation.

That doesn't change the fact that in any normal democratic discussion, it's nonsense.

[HDQQ]

The referendum vote looks like it's going to be implemented, which is the only option, despite the damage it's likely to do. I always said there should have been a second referendum and effectively the general election of 2019 was that second vote. So, we're going to leave the EU. When that happens a line will be drawn under the democratic decision of 2016. After that it would not be undemocratic to campaign for rejoining the EU (with a referendum or similar) although that might prove to be something of an uphill task - but come the 2024 election who knows what the public mood might be. Similarly Trump, if he's: / still alive / cognitive / not in prison / chooses to do so / would be free to stand for the presidential election in 2024.

[Thomas]

"we won" (4 years ago).  I'm not hearing much from them these days about the sunlit uplands of 2021 and how great it will be etc etc.  I would wonder if your only argument for doing something is because you won a vote on it 4 years ago, but all the actual reasons why people vote for it had in the meantime proved wrong, whether it would still be sensible to continue.  However anyway it's too late now.

rubbish. Whose fault is it brexit hasnt been implemented four years and counting after the vote?

If you hold a referendum , you implement the result no matter how long it takes. Not anti demcoratically drag it out using every trick in the book to renege on implementing the vote , then turn round and say times up years later.

That really is a crock of shit that has been dealt with time and again.

In 6 weeks time once brexit has been implemented , then democracy says you can start recampaigning to join. Or should i use the inverse anti demcoratic logic you are displaying and say if you havent had a referendum within the next four years and won it to rejoin the eu , then you cant do so ever again.?

I wouldnt say that though javert , because unlike you im not an anti democrat .

[DeppityDawg]

Meanwhile, 4 years later, the only argument that leave voters generally use to defend the process is "we won" (4 years ago).  I'm not hearing much from them these days about the sunlit uplands of 2021 and how great it will be etc etc.  I would wonder if your only argument for doing something is because you won a vote on it 4 years ago, but all the actual reasons why people vote for it had in the meantime proved wrong, whether it would still be sensible to continue.  However anyway it's too late now.

The usual Javertism's there then.

I don't how many times it is that I've told you I voted to remain in the EU, but is must run to 20+ by now. Yet STILL you refer to my leave argument, and me "winning" a referendum vote.

Just go away Javert. You're boring me.

[Nick]

I would wonder if your only argument for doing something is because you won a vote on it 4 years ago, but all the actual reasons why people vote for it had in the meantime proved wrong, whether it would still be sensible to continue.

You use this 4 years nonsense as if we've had a few years of Brexit and it hasn't worked out. The reality is you lot have fought tooth and nail to frustrate the process. That's why we are where we are.