United States Presidential election - 2020

[Javert]

Hmm. Was just looking at your post, Quack Quack.

It occurred to me that maybe Trump is justified in not recognising the result? Perhaps the US should have a second election? You know, its a close run thing, isn't it? About 52-48 as near as dammit? Neither side played with a straight bat, as is the norm for US elections? Could hardly say truth has won out, could we? So a second election, just to "confirm" the first, if you like? After all, that would be "democracy" wouldn't it? Perhaps some people have changed their mind since the election?

What do you think?

The situation with the 2016 referendum was highly different for a number of reasons:

- Remain voters and supporters did not claim that the vote was fraudulent and invalid - they tried to get it reversed by legally campaigning to hold another vote to put a stop to it.  That is completely different.  To be comparable, David Cameron, instead of resigning, would have stood at the door and said "I know the TV is claiming that leave won the referendum, but they didn't because all the leave votes were illegal, and we are not going to leave the EU regardless".
- The 2016 EU referendum was not legally binding whereas the US president election is binding.
- UK governments can call a referendum whenever they like by an act of parliament, and could have perfectly legally and constitutionally called a referendum on the withdrawal deal, whereas the US presidential election happens only every 4 years by the US constitution, so there is little point campaigning to hold another one right away.

I don't really recall anyone ever claiming that the actual votes cast on the day in 2016 were fraudulent bar the odd one or two edge cases that would happen in any election.  There was certainly some claims that Vote Leave had broken the funding rules which is still disputed today.  But even so nobody was really arguing that the 2016 result should be anulled and re-ran - they were arguing for a new process.

Meanwhile, 4 years later, the only argument that leave voters generally use to defend the process is "we won" (4 years ago).  I'm not hearing much from them these days about the sunlit uplands of 2021 and how great it will be etc etc.  I would wonder if your only argument for doing something is because you won a vote on it 4 years ago, but all the actual reasons why people vote for it had in the meantime proved wrong, whether it would still be sensible to continue.  However anyway it's too late now.

[Barry]

It occurred to me that maybe Trump is justified in not recognising the result?

He is. The result has not been certified and there's a thing called the "Logan Act" which should prevent him acting the President elect, before certification.

Mike Huckabee

BIDEN PLEDGED NOT TO DECLARE WIN BEFORE CERTIFICATION
A couple of days ago, I wrote –- this was fairly tongue-in-cheek –- about Joe Biden deserving prosecution under the Logan Act, as he is a private citizen speaking under no authorization with world leaders to affect foreign policy. It seemed particularly fitting; after all, Biden is reportedly the one who brought up the Logan Act in the Oval Office as a way to target Michael Flynn. (Ironically, unlike Biden today, Flynn was justified in talking with foreign leaders, as he was incoming national security adviser during an OFFICIAL TRANSITION.)

Since raising the issue of the Logan Act, I've seen that others are wondering about this, too

Biden is "playing President." The media are playing along. He addresses them in front of an official-looking cardboard backdrop that says he's the President-elect, and the media take him seriously because they choose to. JOE BIDEN IS NOT THE PRESIDENT-ELECT.

He might, God forbid, actually become President-elect if he survives the careful examination of the vote that absolutely must occur. But with the myriad allegations of massive, deliberate fraud that might be confirmed and reverse the count enormously in key states, he might not get through that process. Democrats were the ones who pressed for massive mail-in balloting, which --- intentionally, I believe --- weakened the process and left it vulnerable to outside manipulation (especially by the dead, ha). So they're just going to have to wait while we make sense of the crazy result, which statisticians say is mathematically impossible.

The vote has NOT been certified. I'm reminded of Lucy informing Charlie Brown, "Peculiar thing about this document. It was never notarized." For once, it's time for the Republicans to pull away the football and let the Democrats land helplessly on their backs.

As reported in the WASHINGTON EXAMINER, Biden is already play-acting the role of President-elect, accepting "congratulatory" calls from world leaders from France, Germany, Ireland and the U.K. and discussing issues such as climate change and COVID-19.

In her report, Haley Victory Smith refers to him as the "apparent President-elect." Apparent to WHOM? Haley Victory Smith?

Smith says that despite Trump's refusal to concede, "many world leaders have recognized Biden as the victor." Well, that's probably because they listen to our media, and also because Biden's already assuming the mantle of power, quite inappropriately, speaking with them about foreign policy when he's not supposed to be doing it.

I would add that one leader who HASN'T yet congratulated Biden is the president of Mexico, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador; he says he himself has been "robbed" of office before by a corrupt process and will wait until our count is certified. Of course, AMLO is catching a lot of grief in the press for doing the right thing.

Reports say he "refuses," but that's too harsh; he's just prudently waiting until our legal issues are resolved, as our own media should.

Anyway, Biden's team has been quite open about these talks, as they add to the perception that he really is Prez-in-waiting. They say Biden spoke to French President Emmanuel Macron about Iran's nuclear program (!). He spoke to British Prime Minister Boris Johnson about Ukraine (!) and the Western Balkans.

"I'm letting them know that America is back," Biden told reporters. "We're going to be back in the game. It's not America alone."

Now wait just a doggone minute. I realize the media are playing along with this "game" –- an unwittingly apt choice of words from Biden –- but the "game" has gone too far.

During the presidential debate hosted by Chris Wallace on September 29, Biden was asked, as the final question, "Will you urge your supporters to stay calm while the vote is counted, and will you pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified?"

Biden did not waver: "YES. And here's the deal: We count the ballots, as you pointed out. Some of these ballots in some states can't even be opened until Election Day, and if there's thousands and thousands of ballots, [it's] gonna take time to do it."

And so it will. But Biden has PLEDGED not to declare victory until the election results are certified. The results have not been certified, so...does this mean he hasn't declared victory? And if he hasn't, what in blazes is he doing "playing President" and talking with foreign leaders about Iran and Ukraine? Trump's the President; Biden's a private citizen. Say, isn't that a violation of the LOGAN ACT??

I would really like to have an answer to this. And I want it from his own lips, not in some CYA statement put out by his legal team.

[DeppityDawg]

He could use all kinds delaying and obstructive tactics to contest the result and try to cling on to power.

Hmm. Was just looking at your post, Quack Quack.

It occurred to me that maybe Trump is justified in not recognising the result? Perhaps the US should have a second election? You know, its a close run thing, isn't it? About 52-48 as near as dammit? Neither side played with a straight bat, as is the norm for US elections? Could hardly say truth has won out, could we? So a second election, just to "confirm" the first, if you like? After all, that would be "democracy" wouldn't it? Perhaps some people have changed their mind since the election?

What do you think?

[Thomas]

Biden thinks he's fighting George HW Bush in 1988, he actually made a gaffe during an interview where he said this.

dont care...he knows who rita o hare is as does many in his party , and thats all i was addressing.

[Borg Refinery]

Dont talk shite dyno and stop trying to play biden the dumb fool over rita o hare.

Biden thinks he's fighting George HW Bush in 1988, he actually made a gaffe during an interview where he said this.

He said 230 million americans died of COVID in another gaffe.

He was photo'd in a swimming pool around loads of young kids and said 'they like to stroke my legs cos I got hairy legs'.

He is batshit crazy and suffering from dementia. I'm not excusing anything he's done because his advisors etc should know about Rita O'Hara but I'm just telling you he is in a world of his own.

I don't trust him at all and am just discussing the venezuelan elections' voting systems having been used in 33 states; a co part owned by Sen. Diane Feinstein'shubby & by Pelosi.

So quit insinuating I'm some sort of Biden apologist, I've clearly called for the election to be investigated and possibly re-run if cheating was found.

Back in 2015 , this german woman in this article wrote to obama and vice president biden asking them to keep their distance from sinn fein , and talking about rita o hare and the  IRA .

Of course biden knows who the feck rita o hare is. Jesus christ dyno , are you that intrinsically naive , or do you just think evercant around you is stupid?


https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/niece-of-german-ira-victim-pleads-with-barack-obama-to-keep-distance-from-sinn-fein-31075260.html

So his advisors should've kept him away from her, why are you insisting that I know he knows who she was and am lying to cover Bide's ass? And you were accusing me of lying and making shite um,' 

[Thomas]

I'm just saying Biden is so spaced out, he thinks 230 million Americans died of COVID.

..As if he knows who that woman is.

Dont talk shite dyno and stop trying to play biden the dumb fool over rita o hare.

Biden clearly knows who rita o hare is.

Back in 2015 , this german woman in this article wrote to obama and vice president biden asking them to keep their distance from sinn fein , and talking about rita o hare and the  IRA .

Of course biden knows who the feck rita o hare is. Jesus christ dyno , are you that intrinsically naive , or do you just think evercant around you is stupid?

A German woman whose aunt was murdered by the IRA has urged American President Barack Obama to distance himself from Sinn Fein.

Melanie Anan has written an emotional letter to Mr Obama, revealing how a photograph of him with Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams and former IRA activist Rita O'Hare "devastated" her family.

Mrs Anan's aunt Heidi Hazell (26) was shot 12 times by the IRA on September 7, 1989 as she parked her car close to Unna Messen barracks, Dormund.

Turning to the President's relationship with Sinn Fein, Mrs Anan urged Mr Obama to distance himself. "As we have been doing our research and inquiries as a family, we came across a picture of you and Gerry Adams; centered in the picture, Rita O'Hare, a wanted woman in Northern Ireland, as she shot a soldier in Northern Ireland," she wrote.

"This picture pains my family greatly, as it gives the appearance, that her crime of participation in a terrorist organization is sanctioned by the United States Government."

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/niece-of-german-ira-victim-pleads-with-barack-obama-to-keep-distance-from-sinn-fein-31075260.html

[Borg Refinery]

You know we are talking about the woman, Rita O'Hare, who is still wanted on warrant for skipping bail, many years back?
She also did time in Limerick prison for smuggling explosives to the IRA.

Yes this is the 2nd time you two have reiterated the point.

I'm just saying Biden is so spaced out, he thinks 230 million Americans died of COVID.

..As if he knows who that woman is. The Dems aren't so stupid that they kill their own PR stunts with silly things like that knowingly..

Edit: I meant to write ""who the other girl was", not guy, and wrote "him" and can see the source of confusion now, d'oh.   

[Barry]

Corbyn was associated with them.

Then again so is Trump so why single out Biden here? Biden is so soaced out he probably thinks Gerry Adams wrote baker street.

I'm just pointing to the truth, I bet Biden had no idea who the other guy was. I'm not gonna atrempt to defend him.

You know we are talking about the woman, Rita O'Hare, who is still wanted on warrant for skipping bail, many years back?
She also did time in Limerick prison for smuggling explosives to the IRA.

[Borg Refinery]

Yes, cosying up to people wanted for terrorism is not a good look.
Then it will all be explained away, like someone on here justified all the Corbyn picture associations with terrorists.

Corbyn was associated with them.

Then again so is Trump so why single out Biden here? Biden is so soaced out he probably thinks Gerry Adams wrote baker street.

I'm just pointing to the truth, I bet Biden had no idea who the other guy was. I'm not gonna atrempt to defend him.

[Barry]

I wasn't referring to Adams, it was the other person in the picture who was charged with plotting to murder members of the armed forces. If a picture of Biden comes to light with him rubbing shoulders with other terrorist factions I'll comment on that also.

Yes, cosying up to people wanted for terrorism is not a good look.
Then it will all be explained away, like someone on here justified all the Corbyn picture associations with terrorists.

[Nick]

Gerry Adams as a terrorist but don't mention the heinous stuff the other guys did?

I wasn't referring to Adams, it was the other person in the picture who was charged with plotting to murder members of the armed forces. If a picture of Biden comes to light with him rubbing shoulders with other terrorist factions I'll comment on that also.

[HDQQ]

Well, when you are dealing with Democrats you can't be too careful..

I thought you were in favour of democracy.

In normal circumstances, my limited knowledge of American politics would suggest to me that cheating in presidential elections is something that might be perpetrated by supporters of either party but not on a large scale by the the party organisations. Trump's accusing the Biden camp of cheating because that's the only route he has to clinging on to power. Think about it. Trump was behind in the polls, Biden was predicted to win by a larger margin than he actually did. Who had the greater incentive to cheat? Jo Biden has run for nomination as a presidential candidate before and the only historic accusation against him are that he once copied part of a speech by another politician.

The cheating in the current presidential election is playing out now, in real time and in plain sight. Trump is cheating because he's trying to find reasons to support his pre-conceived plan to stay in power whether he won the vote or lost it.

[Borg Refinery]

Not going to continue with the name calling malarkey, it's done.
As for the language I think you'll find everyone on this forum can interpret Georgian or Russian, its called Google translate. I speak some Russian and also a bit of Chinese, I don't feel the need to exhibit this in my profile so why you get upset when someone comments on your Greek profile is beyond me.

I've been called a lot worse on here, it doesn't upset me, I just replied in kind to your insult. I was pointing to what you posted as your beliefs, and it was you who tried to resort to personal stuff.

Not sure why you think posting biblical quotes in one of their original languages is showing off, but ok, in like wise I wouldn't interpret Russian or Georgian posting as 'showing off'. I just like other languages, as do you. Maybe in similar fashion having the English flag is showing off, or having previously had a Georgian icon of St George on the profile..?

As for you Apartheid comment you will see that I referred to Steve Biko's death as murder, that shows that I'm not pro the white SA elite. My anger is pointed at the facts that excluding Peter Gabriel no one ever mentions that. A film was made about NM's walk to freedom, a song about freeing him, he was a terrorist pure and simple.

Whether it's black on white or the other way round I deplore racism, and by that I mean discriminate due to the colour of someone's skin.

Ok fair eniugh, but how comes you also point to Gerry Adams as a terrorist but don't mention the heinous stuff the other guys did? I could go on about the UUP and even some DUP guys but I don't really need to do I? No dout you know exactly what I'm referring to.

It's easy to whitewash norn irish history as many people do, harder to look at it objectively.

[Nick]

Was 'dymo' a typo or do you need to review your posts or what? That's why I wrote 'thick', Nick.

Dynamis is a Greek word and there's Koine Greek text on the profile, true. Then again I was thinking of having Georgian text or Russian instead as I can also interpret Cyrillic and I like the language, although I'm rusty at it. Maybe it reflects on your character that you automatically make very shallow assumptions about people.


I'm saying nothing.. 

"but you choose to use it as a retort which shows your character. "

Yes after you called me 'dymo', maybe you can't take what you give out?

A minor amusing edit, don't worry.

The implication of those quotes is fairly clear I think, how comes you don't condemn apartheid or the loyalist paras but only one side?

Maybe you will do so now?

Not going to continue with the name calling malarkey, it's done.
As for the language I think you'll find everyone on this forum can interpret Georgian or Russian, its called Google translate. I speak some Russian and also a bit of Chinese, I don't feel the need to exhibit this in my profile so why you get upset when someone comments on your Greek profile is beyond me.

As for you Apartheid comment you will see that I referred to Steve Biko's death as murder, that shows that I'm not pro the white SA elite. My anger is pointed at the facts that excluding Peter Gabriel no one ever mentions that. A film was made about NM's walk to freedom, a song about freeing him, he was a terrorist pure and simple.

Whether it's black on white or the other way round I deplore racism, and by that I mean discriminate due to the colour of someone's skin.

[Borg Refinery]

Firstly I referenced Greek as you use Greek wording in your profile, if it's a slur change your profile.

Was 'dymo' a typo or do you need to review your posts or what? That's why I wrote 'thick', Nick.

Dynamis is a Greek word and there's Koine Greek text on the profile, true. Then again I was thinking of having Georgian text or Russian instead as I can also interpret Cyrillic and I like the language, although I'm rusty at it. Maybe it reflects on your character that you automatically make very shallow assumptions about people.

Idon't reference THICK in my profile

I'm saying nothing.. 

"but you choose to use it as a retort which shows your character. "

Yes after you called me 'dymo', maybe you can't take what you give out?

So again, where do I suggest that SA is better under apartheid?

I am sick to death of people citing Nelson Mandela as some kind of hero. NO !  He was a terrorists that was personally responsible for over 200 murders. FACT

Look at Steve Biko, thrown out of a window of a Pretoria police station and died, he was murdered. The policeman that killed him isn't nor should be glorified as fighting an apartheid war. FACT

Mandela however is revered as some hero for killing White people, well not by me. He's a terrorist and deserved his time in the big house. FACT

Oops, you edit you post too late. It has already been quoted.

A minor amusing edit, don't worry.

The implication of those quotes is fairly clear I think, how comes you don't condemn apartheid or the loyalist paras but only one side?

Maybe you will do so now?