Sadiq Khan criticised over boarding up statues as PM says it is 'absurd and sham

[Good old]

The weekend was always going to produce some violence , but once the football mob wanted in it was always going to get out of hand in London.  These fellows have been sniffing out ,"Aggro", as they used to call it  From way back when a good many started as long as 45years  or so ago. Maybe they now see themselves as ,dads army,.
Their  take on patriotism , is tribal, they know it will always end up in a good barny, take that out and most of them would stay in the pub.

[Borg Refinery]

Nice to see the left blaming right wing fifth columnists for their violent antics.

Has anyone been arrested for dunking that statue in Bristol yet by the way ? Or have the plod fessed up to letting the left get away with pretty much anything they like.

The Bristol powers appear not to be able to make up their mind what should have happened. As it seems there were few injuries there, the decision taken at the time seems to have been vindicated.

I reckon the weekend's shown which demos were the most violent — the cross-section of the population supporting BLM, or the amalgamation of drunken Far Right** groups rampaging around London...

**Daily Telegraph description: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/13/black-lives-matter-protests-london-statues-racism-churchill/

Pretty much what we've been saying for a while now.

I don't mind the guys who orotected the statues and who stood between thugs & cops to prevent violence, but yeah the idiots from the democratic wanker lads alliance or whatever moniker they're going by now, was as bad as the 'lefty violence' the other week.

They were a minority in both cases, but now some want to paint out all the 'lefty' protests as violent but the 'righty' ones as justifiably violent. The full tribal divide becomes apparent and trolling and hatred is becoming rather vitriolic now..

[patman post]

Nice to see the left blaming right wing fifth columnists for their violent antics.

Has anyone been arrested for dunking that statue in Bristol yet by the way ? Or have the plod fessed up to letting the left get away with pretty much anything they like.

The Bristol powers appear not to be able to make up their mind what should have happened. As it seems there were few injuries there, the decision taken at the time seems to have been vindicated.

I reckon the weekend's shown which demos were the most violent — the cross-section of the population supporting BLM, or the amalgamation of drunken Far Right** groups rampaging around London...

**Daily Telegraph description: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/13/black-lives-matter-protests-london-statues-racism-churchill/

[Good old]

What a strange conversation.

Im pretty certain its a troll, along with that hallowedbrexit guy and the other one, we've had an influx recently.

It's! Not a troll, Thomas, questions me ,with most of his own answers thrown in. I don't try to bring him down, he though is hell bent on taking bits and pieces of statements and coming up with his own answers . He came to me, I didn't go to him. I did not seek him out. So how do I become the troll? If I say something that's out of line with some sort of consensus here so be it . But I'm  no troll . just someone with opinions, that apparently are not  appreciated, which in its self , I couldn't care less about.but ,"troll", please.

[Good old]

Thomas, You keep insisting on answers that suit , your pre-existing ideas as to why certain black statues should not be protected
Yet you side track every question put to you. The quote you then use , merely makes the point  London's full of frigging statues, most white, they can not all be protected .Not hard to understand surely.
As to who , and who isn't deemed to be the devil, I don't  see hardly any of them as squeaky clean. Most have something to answer for in someone's book ,black or white. I am not saying the subject of a black statue has nothing to answer for up there . Merely that   
They can not all be protected, so why not protect  one or two black devils with the white ones.
Nick, doesn't  name a statue, I have to guess which one, if it's the man I would  guess at. I'd say a freedom fighter with blood on his hands, fighting oppression in his own back yard. Not comparable to many people commemorated around the country. Let me make it clear, I would save the lot warts and all. They are all history, nothing more. Doing it is another thing.
So you don't think it makes sense to have more ethnic diversity in the police. Fair enough you must have your reasons, though I'm not busting a gut to know what they are .

[Thomas]

Im pretty certain its a troll, along with that hallowedbrexit guy and the other one, we've had an influx recently.

so i see dyno.

[Thomas]

 
I will ask you why should I completely refute , Nicks claim, he might be right, he might not. I give an alternative. What is your concern?

Nick posted a comment in post 7 of this thread , and you replied to him in post 8.

You dont have to do anything , but what im saying is your reply doesnt in any way address what he is saying. I have given the reasons why this is now multiple times.

Your comment isnt an alternative. Its a nonsense .

Nick is asking why statues representing black figures( the quantity is irrelevant to his point) apparently have protected status , while white statues dont?

Your reply?

Maybe that would be because the overwhelming majority of statues in London, commemorate white individuals.

I mean what a load of horseshit.

So by that mentality , if in sadiq khans fantasy world the majority of statues in london were of black people , and a minority of white , and white lives matter decided to take them down , deface them and dump them in the thames , that would be allright according to you as the majortity of statues are black?

What a stupid feckin comment.

you go on....

It's probably not possible to protect every statue anyway,

It isnt , and as i replied earlier it shoudlnt have to be in a normal civilised society. however nicks point is no matter how many statues you can or can't protect , why is it only white statues that are deemed to be the devil?

You arent addressing his points old man.

Not at any point have I advocated ,positive discrimination , this is another of your inventions.

Forgive me then if i misunderstood what you wrote here.....

It's long been the official line that the police want more Black/Asian, recruits, it makes sense,

...because this certainly seems to be supportive of postive discrimination. I dont think it makes sense. Who cares what colour their skin is? You already said you want the best candidate for the job , of which skin colour doesnt matter.

You didn't answer my question, I notice , but never mind, as you won't consider the best candidate should get the job regardless, and could then at least theoretically  rebalance the make up of police personnel, that will do. "Positive discrimination ", Is not a given on the subject. And just for the the record, "positive discrimination", is an abomination in my opinion.

no worries old man. Enjoy your toke mate , and have a lovely sunday evening.

[papasmurf]

Im pretty certain its a troll, along with that hallowedbrexit guy and the other one, we've had an influx recently.

There is a lot of it about, I don't know whether it is Trolls or people who have gone "hutch happy."

[Borg Refinery]

What a strange conversation.

Im pretty certain its a troll, along with that hallowedbrexit guy and the other one, we've had an influx recently.

[Good old]

 

Yes it certainly is a strange conversation, your constant insistence on interpreting everything said to you in a way that suits how you want to read and understand it has made that a fact.
I will ask you why should I completely refute , Nicks claim, he might be right, he might not. I give an alternative. What is your concern?
Not at any point have I advocated ,positive discrimination , this is another of your inventions. Followed by more invention. More police from ethnic backgrounds . Only equates to positive discrimination, in your imagination. Then you follow up with ," an apparent hint". Well as I have never  advocated  , " positive discrimination ",  that has to be more over active imagination. I'm lost as to where sheep get into this .
You didn't answer my question, I notice , but never mind, as you won't consider the best candidate should get the job regardless, and could then at least theoretically  rebalance the make up of police personnel, that will do. "Positive discrimination ", Is not a given on the subject. And just for the the record, "positive discrimination", is an abomination in my opinion.

[Thomas]

It seems to me your the one bouncing all over the place .  Nick, seemed to think  black subject statues were being treated differently to white subjects. I would say there are so few black statues, that it would be difficult to assess whether he should be worried or not, on the basis of which of them possessed the worst character. Maybe percentages play a roll.

i know what nick said. i pointed out you didnt address what he said regarding black statues being treated differently from white.

I point out again the number of black statues is irrelevant to what he is saying , and why there is less black statues than white.So again this is a sidestep.

He made a claim , you havent refuted that claim .

I think my previous post does answer your own point

Where?

.I want the police to recruit the best candidates. I want the best that's all.  So what does that tell you?

so do i hence why i pointed out positive dsicrimination isnt the way to do this.

...but earlier you hinted that positive discrimination made sense , so i point out again that you are all over the place , one minute appearing to agree with positive discrimination , the next saying you want the best candidates for the job?

It's long been the official line that the police want more Black/Asian, recruits, it makes sense, but it hasn't happened,.

Which is it???

Positive discrimination from black ethinc backgrounds for the police doesnt give you the best candidate for the job , it merely satisfies some race quota to suit the luvvies.

Maybe because for ten years not much recruiting has happened of any ethnicity.

In England maybe , but again not recuriting from any ethnicity is a diversion to what is being discussed.

We were talking about your comment of recuriting from black ethnic commuites in an apparent hint at positive discrimination being a good thing , now you are onto bleating about cuts to englands police force rather than some sort of discrimination which is what i apparently took your original quote to mean.?

Generally the police remain mainly a white organisation.

aye it will do , as we have already established

1. the police represent a majority white nation in both scotland and england

2. no recruiting is going on in england( or very little according to you)

3. You agree positive discrimination is a bad thing , hence the makeup of the police shouldnt be discussed on the numbers of white officers  , but more the standard of the officer in place rather than colour of skin.

It will be interesting to see if that is about to change

why should it change if you agree positive discrimination is a bad thing and the police should reflect the community  predominantly white , they represent and from where they pick the best candidates based o not on skin colour but quality of candidate?

What a strange conversation.

[Good old]

Maybe not to your satisfaction. But the point I was making was that , not all statues could be protected , so what the subjects had or had not done didn't have to be a prime mover for protecting them.
As far as I know there is no official policy of ," positive discrimination. It may be some personal opinions  in the force would express a different view. I would not support the recruitment of anything other than the best applicants. Not sure that has happened ethnic or otherwise for years now. What makes sense is to search for good recruits of all ethnic backgrounds..
As to the last quote you use. I merely state a fact. I do think at the very least it will be interesting to see if ,what is now a fact , should change . I suggest absolutely nothing beyond that.

Not all statues should have to be protected in a civilised normal democracy.

It wasnt difficult to see where this whole BLM damaging , defacing and tearing down status would lead in the name of whilte liberal guilt.

There is plenty of statues of cants in glasgow and wider scotland i dont agree with , but there is a time and place and civilsed manner in dealing with them . Again though none of this addresses nicks point though does it?

What makes sense is to search for good recruits of all ethnic backgrounds..

Thats what i hinted at. This is called gaining a job on merit .

Employers dont give a feck if you are pink black white or brown , they want the best candidate for the job , not some equality list shoved down their throat.

As to the last quote you use. I merely state a fact.

It is a fact , as is my rejoinder.

However you fail again to address my point which is do you want a disproportionate amount of black and ethnic minority figures in the police compared to wider society to make up some equality list , or do you want the best candidates for the job irrespective of skin colourbased on merit as we discussed , and you agreed , above?

You seem a bit all over the place?

It seems to me your the one bouncing all over the place .  Nick, seemed to think  black subject statues were being treated differently to white subjects. I would say there are so few black statues, that it would be difficult to assess whether he should be worried or not, on the basis of which of them possessed the worst character. Maybe percentages play a roll.
I think my previous post does answer your own point. But never the less .I want the police to recruit the best candidates. I want the best that's all.  So what does that tell you? 
Just a question for you. How would you feel if the police  became disproportionately black, on merit?
As for most of your points we are on a very similar wavelength, making them merely pull us all over the place.

[Thomas]

Maybe not to your satisfaction. But the point I was making was that , not all statues could be protected , so what the subjects had or had not done didn't have to be a prime mover for protecting them.
As far as I know there is no official policy of ," positive discrimination. It may be some personal opinions  in the force would express a different view. I would not support the recruitment of anything other than the best applicants. Not sure that has happened ethnic or otherwise for years now. What makes sense is to search for good recruits of all ethnic backgrounds..
As to the last quote you use. I merely state a fact. I do think at the very least it will be interesting to see if ,what is now a fact , should change . I suggest absolutely nothing beyond that.

Not all statues should have to be protected in a civilised normal democracy.

It wasnt difficult to see where this whole BLM damaging , defacing and tearing down status would lead in the name of whilte liberal guilt.

There is plenty of statues of cants in glasgow and wider scotland i dont agree with , but there is a time and place and civilsed manner in dealing with them . Again though none of this addresses nicks point though does it?

What makes sense is to search for good recruits of all ethnic backgrounds..

Thats what i hinted at. This is called gaining a job on merit .

Employers dont give a feck if you are pink black white or brown , they want the best candidate for the job , not some equality list shoved down their throat.

As to the last quote you use. I merely state a fact.

It is a fact , as is my rejoinder.

However you fail again to address my point which is do you want a disproportionate amount of black and ethnic minority figures in the police compared to wider society to make up some equality list , or do you want the best candidates for the job irrespective of skin colourbased on merit as we discussed , and you agreed , above?

You seem a bit all over the place?

[Good old]

Maybe that would be because the overwhelming majority of statues in London, commemorate white individuals.

Sorry i dont see what this has to do with nicks point?

The majority of statues in london , England , and across these islands and europe commemorate white historical individuals.  Thats because historically , london , england , these islands and thw wider european continent has been white.

So its quite obvious you are going to have a tiny minority of black figures represented by statues. No matte how few black statues there are , nicks point is why are they sacrosanct yet white ones arent?

Given time , you could go around every single statue in london , wether black or white , and pick holes in the person that they represents life , and someone somewhere could be found to take offence at the statue.

The whole wider debate on offensive historical statues in my opinion is a nonsense.

It's my opinion no statue should be defaced it's vandalism nothing more.

i agree ,and if society does want rid of a statue for whatever reason , there is a sensible civlised way of doing so rather than the shouty angry lefty way of lobbing it in a river.

It's long been the official line that the police want more Black/Asian, recruits, it makes sense, but it hasn't happened,

Positive discrimination never makes sense . If you want a job , then you should get it on merit , nothing else.

Generally the police remain mainly a white organisation.

which is representative of the countries of the uk. ? Are you suggesting we should have a disproportionate amount of black people in the police compared to the population as a whole to satisfy this never ending guilt trip of white liberal lefty middle class whingers?

Maybe not to your satisfaction. But the point I was making was that , not all statues could be protected , so what the subjects had or had not done didn't have to be a prime mover for protecting them.
As far as I know there is no official policy of ," positive discrimination. It may be some personal opinions  in the force would express a different view. I would not support the recruitment of anything other than the best applicants. Not sure that has happened ethnic or otherwise for years now. What makes sense is to search for good recruits of all ethnic backgrounds..
As to the last quote you use. I merely state a fact. I do think at the very least it will be interesting to see if ,what is now a fact , should change . I suggest absolutely nothing beyond that.

[Thomas]

Maybe that would be because the overwhelming majority of statues in London, commemorate white individuals.

Sorry i dont see what this has to do with nicks point?

The majority of statues in london , England , and across these islands and europe commemorate white historical individuals.  Thats because historically , london , england , these islands and thw wider european continent has been white.

So its quite obvious you are going to have a tiny minority of black figures represented by statues. No matte how few black statues there are , nicks point is why are they sacrosanct yet white ones arent?

Given time , you could go around every single statue in london , wether black or white , and pick holes in the person that they represents life , and someone somewhere could be found to take offence at the statue.

The whole wider debate on offensive historical statues in my opinion is a nonsense.

It's my opinion no statue should be defaced it's vandalism nothing more.

i agree ,and if society does want rid of a statue for whatever reason , there is a sensible civlised way of doing so rather than the shouty angry lefty way of lobbing it in a river.

It's long been the official line that the police want more Black/Asian, recruits, it makes sense, but it hasn't happened,

Positive discrimination never makes sense . If you want a job , then you should get it on merit , nothing else.

Generally the police remain mainly a white organisation.

which is representative of the countries of the uk. ? Are you suggesting we should have a disproportionate amount of black people in the police compared to the population as a whole to satisfy this never ending guilt trip of white liberal lefty middle class whingers?